Crafting suggestions/concerns/info from the old forums

[Kurt2013]

Old 13th March 2012, 17:15
#61 Euklid

Soo....I've grinded catacombs etc. for weeks to get all recipies, invested gold and various valuables to get other recipies and now.... everyone can craft without having the recipies?

That is not fair!!

And concerning compensation, why the restriction to veterans?


Cheers Euklid

Old 14th March 2012, 09:23
#62 TS-Ptah

Originally Posted by Euklid View Post
Soo....I've grinded catacombs etc. for weeks to get all recipies, invested gold and various valuables to get other recipies and now.... everyone can craft without having the recipies?

That is not fair!!

And concerning compensation, why the restriction to veterans?


Cheers Euklid

Why is this not fair? I grinded Catacombs, the 3 scalable "resource" instances, Halls, Onyx you name it. We did that 2-3 years ago. In any MMO, recipes like that will inevitably become obsolete and useless as time goes and new content added.

Funcom could aswell just add several new recipes in newer dungeon and the whole recipe grinding/farming would start up again. Now Funcom makes another system instead, where we most likely wont need to do these insane farming for a chance to get a recipe. Im atleast happy for that...

Old 14th March 2012, 11:34
#63 Kourose

When T2 came... those grinding for full T1 did not cry (atleast not all)... they settled...

When T3 came, same thing happened.. then T3.5 then T4 etc... MMO evolves... items and effort becomes obsolete... instead of whining.. ADAPT!

I get it.. if you go about and grind NOW for the recipes, you kinda get screwed.. but then again, you are the moron for grinding now that you know they will be gone.. if you have already spent resources to get these recipes (like I did), you've already made TONS OF MONEY ALREADY! So be happy.. and if you haven't made tons of money, you suck so much that it doesn't matter if the recipes are removed... get my drift?

Old 14th March 2012, 12:09
#64 Freke

Originally Posted by Kourose View Post
When T2 came... those grinding for full T1 did not cry (atleast not all)... they settled...

When T3 came, same thing happened.. then T3.5 then T4 etc... MMO evolves... items and effort becomes obsolete... instead of whining.. ADAPT!

I get it.. if you go about and grind NOW for the recipes, you kinda get screwed.. but then again, you are the moron for grinding now that you know they will be gone.. if you have already spent resources to get these recipes (like I did), you've already made TONS OF MONEY ALREADY! So be happy.. and if you haven't made tons of money, you suck so much that it doesn't matter if the recipes are removed... get my drift?

Why is it so hard for some people to understand why removing recipes is unfair? Comparing it to raid tiers is just plain wrong. Those that had full T1, still had their gear when T2 came. Which means they still had an advantage over those that did not.
Removing recipes will set everyone, new and old, at the same level. So those that have spent sick amounts of time and gold on recipes, will loose all, while those that havent will not loose anything. yet they will all be starting from scratch.

Saying recipes are useless is silly. Why am I still making lots of gold, then? Ofc they dont mean as much, but lots of items are sold on Trader every day. They still are worth something to someone apparently.

Get my drift?

[Kurt2013]

Old 14th March 2012, 12:28
#65 Yawgmoth-VDN

Originally Posted by Freke View Post
Removing recipes will set everyone, new and old, at the same level. So those that have spent sick amounts of time and gold on recipes, will loose all, while those that havent will not loose anything. yet they will all be starting from scratch.

that's not completely true, since Sil already said that the ones that farmed the recipes will get some knowledge for free with the new system...

Old 14th March 2012, 13:00
#66 Invino

I can't wait for crafting revamp.

Pretty sure there will be some compensation for owned recipes and possibly a conversion for old mats. I'm guessing it will be better to have stuff than not when revamp comes. My 100+ recipes and 3-4 mule toons full of junk I will never get to use may come in handy again.

I enjoy crafting and gathering and selling and I want something to enjoy on a weekend morning with my coffee and weed, used to love building city, but that's over now and I have no reason to farm cus very few things sell.

Old 14th March 2012, 13:02
#67 Freke

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth-VDN View Post
that's not completely true, since Sil already said that the ones that farmed the recipes will get some knowledge for free with the new system...

He has said that veterans will get a "head start". Which in the FC vein will be a few bandaids to cover up what will feel like an amputation.

The only way I would feel good about this is if they made an algorithm that went through the crafting book and gave compensation based on how many and rare recipes was found. Giving anyone thats been playing for a while, and hence concidered a veteran, a "head start" is not even close to fair.

I will add that I think the new crafting system will be good for the game. How its implemented though will most likely feel like a kick in the balls to most recipe hunters.

Old 14th March 2012, 13:27
#68 Yawgmoth-VDN

Originally Posted by Freke View Post
The only way I would feel good about this is if they made an algorithm that went through the crafting book and gave compensation based on how many and rare recipes was found.

and how do you know that it's not what they are planning to do??

Old 14th March 2012, 14:09
#69 Freke

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth-VDN View Post
and how do you know that it's not what they are planning to do??

I don't. It's an educated guess

Old 14th March 2012, 15:01
#70 Yawgmoth-VDN

don't get me wrong, we have no idea of what they plan to do, but i think it's better to give suggestions than to smash our heads to the wall and complain in advance...
and i think that what you posted before is a damn good suggestion!!

[Kurt2013]

Old 14th March 2012, 15:11 runningwolf is offline #71
runningwolf

Originally Posted by redevil82 View Post
Starting for scratch always involves more work than tweaking existing content.

They are not starting from scratch. All of the existing recipes are still in the system, so none of that is being removed (though it may well be added to).

Think of the new crafting system like taking the design of a classic Jaguar automobile (armor and weapon looks, etc.), and using that design with a new engine and electrical system (as opposed to the nightmarish old electrical systems Jaguar cars had before).

You end up with a car that has all the looks of the old one, and the performance of a new one.

Old 14th March 2012, 16:28
#72 Euklid

Originally Posted by Kourose View Post
...*snip*..... if you have already spent resources to get these recipes (like I did), you've already made TONS OF MONEY ALREADY! So be happy.....

You can't be serious - tons of money - lol. The mats are more worth then the final product; maybe some very few (w3/t3 hm) excluded.

I do, however, agree that the crafting system needs an overhaul. My worry is just about Sil's comment about compensating veterans only. What about those non-veterans spending many hours grinding for recipes?

Maybe Sil could shed some light on this?


Cheers Euklid

[Kurt2013]

Old 14th March 2012, 18:09
#73 TBird69

Originally Posted by runningwolf View Post
They are not starting from scratch. All of the existing recipes are still in the system, so none of that is being removed (though it may well be added to).

Think of the new crafting system like taking the design of a classic Jaguar automobile (armor and weapon looks, etc.), and using that design with a new engine and electrical system (as opposed to the nightmarish old electrical systems Jaguar cars had before).

You end up with a car that has all the looks of the old one, and the performance of a new one.

If you had read what Sil has said in this thread you would know that the old recipes do not fit nor exist in the new system and are being removed and yes it's starting from scratch. Here is a cut and paste from what he has said:

1 #19
Silirrion
Game Director

As I mentioned in the other thread, recipes aren't part of the new system.

The very idea of them won't exist anymore once the new system goes live. 'Recipes', as a concept, are gone in the new system. There simply aren't any recipes anymore. We have removed the bottle neck of having to have the 'recipe' item, and now the system will be based on your knowledge of the combines, and your access to the ingredients required to make any given item.

So there isn't anything to convert there at all, the very idea of a recipe (as an arbitrary blocker to creating an item) simply doesn't exist in the new system. Anyone can try and make anything...the key of course will be the ingredients and combinations.

In terms of items, as mentioned yesterday, the items themselves will still be there. Anything that was made prior to the changes will still be there.

You just won't be able to make them again after the changes.

Those items will in effect become legacy items that were created by the old system. They will continue to exist, people just won't be able to make new ones.


We will though be making sure that veterans get some form of boost or 'head start' with the new system. It is a little early for any final decisions there however and that is something we will confirm during final testing. Rest assured however that we be sure to provide something to you all as recognition of previous efforts.

Old 18th March 2012, 23:20
#74 bjedne

I've read somewhere that high end crafting materials will stay in the game aka. shards.

But what about crafted strange malleable alloy?

i guess those will become obsolete with the new system, will they be inbursed too?

I have one in inv, but i doubt i can get it crafted to an ingot in the next 1000 years.

hoping for an answer sil....

[Kurt2013]

Old 28th March 2012, 07:37
#77 Leonidus

I really don't like the sound of this new system...seems so damn vague.

So basically you have a window in which you put items (that you randomly think will make something nice). So you are trying to make something like an ibis, you put in the 10 shards and the x times crap,and make a less-than par ibis because you find out later you needed an extra 'salt' to make a perfect ibis...all shards gone, all mats used...6 months farm down the pan.

I hate the fact there will be no on par compensation...I spend literally months farming for crappy rare gems in the common district and just (almost) finished farming for materials for a t3 bow ...which i not sure i get crafted in time (due to the fact i need 2 raids to dedicate their time to me---flawed design btw) so either way we get screwed because i am not gonna stick 20 shards + mats into some random experiment and 'hope' for someting to be made.

Old 28th March 2012, 10:58
#78 TBird69

Originally Posted by Leonidus View Post
I really don't like the sound of this new system...seems so damn vague.

So basically you have a window in which you put items (that you randomly think will make something nice). So you are trying to make something like an ibis, you put in the 10 shards and the x times crap,and make a less-than par ibis because you find out later you needed an extra 'salt' to make a perfect ibis...all shards gone, all mats used...6 months farm down the pan.

I hate the fact there will be no on par compensation...I spend literally months farming for crappy rare gems in the common district and just (almost) finished farming for materials for a t3 bow ...which i not sure i get crafted in time (due to the fact i need 2 raids to dedicate their time to me---flawed design btw) so either way we get screwed because i am not gonna stick 20 shards + mats into some random experiment and 'hope' for someting to be made.

Thing is you may not have 20 shards after the revamp think about that :s

Old 28th March 2012, 11:13
#79 paulson

Originally Posted by Leonidus View Post
So basically you have a window in which you put items (that you randomly think will make something nice). So you are trying to make something like an ibis, you put in the 10 shards and the x times crap,and make a less-than par ibis because you find out later you needed an extra 'salt' to make a perfect ibis...all shards gone, all mats used...6 months farm down the pan.

It's not completly random, a item is made up of Components and effects, the Components will be the same every time you make for example the new ibis. Then you add effects in, for example +Combatrating & +Ctritical strike.

It's only the Blend of the effects that you will not know. Most likely if you make a new Ibis, the minimum stats will be similar to the existing Ibis, and only by getting a good blend and a lucky critical when crafting will you be able to get better stats.

I don't think a Ibis without blend or critical while crafting it will be completly useless. You might not be able to sell it at massive profits, but you'll probably get your investment back in materials. But just think what you could sell that Perfect ibis for?

[Kurt2013]

Old 28th March 2012, 13:59
#80 Djain

Originally Posted by paulson View Post
I don't think a Ibis without blend or critical while crafting it will be completly useless. You might not be able to sell it at massive profits, but you'll probably get your investment back in materials. But just think what you could sell that Perfect ibis for?

And just think of the amount of korean-style farming you need to do to get the best weapon (or gold purchased from goldsellers if you like) - it's already a pain farming for a T3 crafted weapon, imagine spending 20 shards, a shitloads of blue mats, and then you end up with a subpar weapon. Ofc it's not useless, but if you spends that amount of time, you should get the best possible outcome. The premise is ofc whether
- shards exist after the revamp, or raid-weapons are less expensive to craft (I doubt it)
- you are able to "redesign" or upgrade your weapon when new gem effects are discovered.
- this "critical effect" also changes the outcome of base stats

Old 28th March 2012, 20:51
#81 Leonidus

Originally Posted by Djain View Post
And just think of the amount of korean-style farming you need to do to get the best weapon (or gold purchased from goldsellers if you like) - it's already a pain farming for a T3 crafted weapon, imagine spending 20 shards, a shitloads of blue mats, and then you end up with a subpar weapon. Ofc it's not useless, but if you spends that amount of time, you should get the best possible outcome. The premise is ofc whether
- shards exist after the revamp, or raid-weapons are less expensive to craft (I doubt it)
- you are able to "redesign" or upgrade your weapon when new gem effects are discovered.
- this "critical effect" also changes the outcome of base stats

Yep this is totally right...also, i have seen this kind of 'crit' system in LOTRO...it basically made all normal crafted stuff worthless because everyone wanted the crit items...which will be even more so with something like ibis or t3 weapon because of the months and months of grind for materials.

Another point...who is gonna be the first to experiment with such valuable mats? the first to find the winning combo? Currently i can make a t3 bow with + range and can slot + range but to get this effect will take how many tries before someone knows the combo? because its all based on this rather than recipes. so who is gonna put up 20 shards to find out?

Old 28th March 2012, 21:26
#82 Bignose

I worry that the 90% of people who doesn't play MMOs because of crafting, and who couldn't care less about crafting are the same 90% of people who cheer loudly for the new crafting system.

I worry that the 10% of people who find crafting essensial in an MMO, and largely play MMOs because of crafting are the same 10% who is pissed off because everything they own will be taken from them.

I hope I'm wrong.

Three problems, though:

-Only critical sucsesses will have any value whatsoever. The rest is junk. I worry we will now have to make 100 pieces of junk in order to craft the one item we want.

-Yet another alt+tab feature. In order to learn crafting, you can spend all your gold and 1000 hours making junk in order to test every possible combination (and make a huuuge exel-spreadsheet in the process), OR you can alt+tab to a third party web site to get the information there.

-Worthless alts. Finding a recipt develops your character permanently. Finding them have been the most enjoyable moments in AOC. (I've actually danced a little jig on occations). With the rewamp I'll delete 10 alts, who no longer can use their special recipts and are thus rendered utterly worthless.

Old 1st April 2012, 10:29
#83 jauertussen

no troll
plz. dont use any troll like comments to the funcome dudes, when they acculy do the best thing and reply in forum posts.
i approve the new system. as long it have a chance to create high lvl items, rare as it migth be.

my only problem is if i burn in at release with a complete mat set for t3 craft. so plz. post release date long up front(like 3 months) els i considere rage quit

[Kurt2013]

Old 4th April 2012, 14:24
#84 Siriel

Default
I hope that they will give us something worth more for tons of gold and hundreads of hours spent on acquiring those damn recipes than for example:

"For every 10 recipes you get 5 xp potions to use on your new character. Above 50 you get an exclusive pet - green mouse - called Skippy with a tragic story of being nearly crushed by a monkeys foot in dangeorous jungle of Paikang"

Old 10th August 2012, 10:55
#85 johnwolf01

IMO, The recepies should stay, Like everyone says We spent hours grinding for them and hours more farming resources to craft them.

A good plan is to Maybe add some stats to them, to make them either stronger than some dungion loot , Not Refering to epic's and maybe give them some PvP stats but less than origional pvp gear... for those players who dont yet have the tokens to get pvp gear.

same for the gems... add some pvp stats to those to.

I suspect that in doing so will make them wanted items again...

[Kurt2013]

From "[Petition]pvp crafting" thread:

Old 6th March 2012, 13:07
#1 borystakieimie

[Petition]pvp crafting
With crafting system revamp at the corner funcom has a chance to add some reasons for open world pvp. I hope that new crafting system will be benefiting pve as well as pvp. According to Silirrion words: http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/show...&postcount=103
they are going to take a look at the matter.

I hope we will see a crafting system which would encourage ppl to get mats in open world pvp for pvp gear (looting dead players) , if needed combining them with resources gathered in CE or Lacheish plains etc(but not with mats which drop from mobs plz!). Imo it would definately bring more open pvp than open world boss. It could bring an option for pvp guilds to gear up alts or fresh 80s, and not forcing them to raid. PPl who start with aoc, hit 80 and dont want to play pve would have an alternative way to progress, get some money(mini game quests doesnt give much), and shorten the pvp gear gap(pvp crafted gear can be more op than pve crafted gear - the shorter gear gap in pvp - the more balanced gameplay). It would be a great reason for pvpers to stay premium and a reason to fight for. It also seems very easy to avoid exploiting in opposition to a world boss.


What do you think about it?
Imagine that you can gear up your new char by doing some ganking in open world instead of farming t1/t2 raids.
Would you like to gather a group and farm some mats in open world pvp and then make a gear for new guildies?


There is only one disadventage for some ppl(for some its adventage). Increasing open world pvp means that ppl who play solo pve in khitai would be ganked as in the old days(best aoc days) and would be forced to play in groups (and gank as well if they want to get crafted pvp gear) . However they arent hindered with pvp at raids, khitai Hm's, so it wont be a big problem I think, especially that there arent many players who play only pve at fury(pvp server=hybrid gameplay). There are several instances so it is easy to avoid open world pvp. Fury needs to be open pvp server in opposition to crom. Rage server was a choice of many ppl because of open world pvp, same ppl quited because of being forced to pve grind. It could fix both these aspects(lack of open world pvp and grind). At Crom it could work in Border kingdoms and minigames.

We probably wont get a new pvp content this year( http://forums-tl.ageofconan.com/show...6&postcount=10 ) and that could be smth instead.

Share your opinion and if you are interested in Crafting system regarding pvp just sign it plz

Old 6th March 2012, 13:30
#2 Rathothis

/signed

I do not really pvp in this game but I think that a tie-in with pvp would make evident sense. But there are a couple of points worth thinking about:

1. What kind of resources drop in pvp?
There are essentially two options - you can have separate pvp and pve resources, or you can have the same resources drop in both. Personally, I like the idea of having separate resources, with both PvE and PvP resources required for high-end crafted gear. A system with separate resources would bring PvEers and PvPers together in the marketplace. The drawback is that it is not likely to work under the current PvE ruleset. So, as long as we do not have a single trading system for all servers (what happened to the single server technology, btw?), I believe that a system with common "PvE and PvP" resources might sadly be more viable.

2. How do you limit rare resource availability through PvP?
In PvE, this is done by (i) having the best resources drop only from the hardest bosses, and (ii) limiting the ability of players to repeat-kill these bosses by means of lockouts. The first is impossible in PvP as there is no "absolute" level of difficulty, and the second is clearly not desirable. The "easy" solution would be to have a very low drop chance for high-end resources, but in my view this would be annoyingly luck-based, and would favour grinders who play 24/7 over people who are masters of their class. Imho, the best way to control the resource flow in PvP would be to have common resources drop from players, but have high-end resources only available as quest rewards, both for minigames and for open-world PvP. If quest objectives for high-end PvP quests are adequately difficult to meet, and the quests have an appropriate cooldown, a system like this would (i) serve to limit the availability of rare resources, and (ii) reward top PvPers for their accomplishments, rather than grinders for doing the same thing over and over again. Also, a system of this sort could easily be rebalanced by adjusting quest objectives or rewards, and expanded on by adding new objectives and rewards to keep in line with new PvE gear being introduced.

Just some thoughts from a PvE carebear though

[Kurt2013]

Old 6th March 2012, 14:07
#3 borystakieimie

Originally Posted by Rathothis View Post
2. How do you limit rare resource availability through PvP?

spots 1-3 in weekly bragging raids ranking(mini game premades) = every member of guild gets reasonable amount of rare mats randomly looted by guild members? (like 10 random rare mats for 100 guild members - 10% chance to get 1 mat)

+ 1 rare mat for every 5 premade minis won vs different guilds. Quest is available lets say two times per week (in example). If your guild is bad in pvp you wont be able to get the pvp mats. Pve guilds could buy pvp epic mats or use their pve mats or exchange for pvp mats. They can collect and sell also non-epic pvp mats so this would be content for everyone. Economy would work fine

Quests would work only when premade from one guild is facing premade from other guild but it should be not possible to exploit it by making an alt guild.

If it would be exploited - rewards from bragging rights could be improved and it would also work fine. Lets say 10 mats randomly looted by guildmembers and 5 mats for guildleader who can give them for ppl playing minis.

Old 6th March 2012, 14:28
#4 Rathothis

Originally Posted by borystakieimie View Post
spots 1-3 in weekly bragging raids ranking(mini game premades) = every member of guild gets reasonable amount of rare mats randomly looted by guild members? (like 10 random rare mats for 100 guild members - 10% chance to get 1 mat)

+ 1 rare mat for every 10 premade minis won. Quest is available lets say two times per week (in example). If your guild is bad in pvp you wont be able to get the pvp mats. Pve guilds could buy pvp epic mats or use their pve mats or exchange for pvp mats. They can collect and sell also non-epic pvp mats so this would be content for everyone. Economy would work fine

I like the idea of a system of this sort. There is one more issue worth mentioning though:

3. How do you prevent expl... err handholding?

Handholding is the bane of open world PvP objectives, see Bori. If, say, an open world quest objective were to kill 50 guardians without being killed by one, that is in theory a rather difficult objective. It becomes somewhat less difficult if I offline my free level 50 guardian (who has done one single quest in two years) to 80 and let you whack me on the head 50 times.

Objectives based on minigame wins are equally exploitable, e.g. by premades who do cooperate so each of them can meet the objective.

The best solution is to tie rewards to relative achievements, as proposed by you in your first paragraph. The problem is that it requires additional developer effort (some kind of ranking system) and I am not sure whether Funcom are in a position to deliver that at this point.

Failing that, it might be relatively safe to tie high-end resource rewards to the one part of PvP gameplay that is not available at all times - sieges. While even sieges are exploitable (ghost sieges), the resources in circulation would be limited by (i) siege windows, and (ii) the limited number of battlekeeps. Both of these restrictions are already in place, so tying rewards to them would not require much developer effort. And it might give people a reason to siege again.

Old 6th March 2012, 14:31
#5 borystakieimie

I edited my post and there is a partial answer for that

and open world pvp mats arent valuable that much and dont have such great drop rate that handholding would be beneficient enough.

Aoc before bori was exploitable as well, few ppl exploited that but much more had a great fun in open world.

I dont know how bragging rights system works but it should work like that - guild which is losing premade minis is getting down in ranking = losing a chance to get a reward. Its impossible to get top spot for guild by farming the weakest guild.

If funcom cannot give us that kind of system it would be still better to give a very rare drop rate for pvp mats and implement the system in future than not link pvp with crafting. No lifers will get rich fast but it doesnt mean that they will get top gear. And casual players will be able to buy mats from trader.

[Kurt2013]

Old 6th March 2012, 14:37
#6 Rathothis

Originally Posted by borystakieimie View Post
I edited my post and there is a partial answer for that

and open world pvp mats arent valuable that much and dont have such great drop rate that handholding would be beneficient enough.

Aoc before bori was exploitable as well, few ppl exploited that but much more had a great fun in open world.

I agree that tying rewards to defeating different guilds would greatly reduce the risk of exploiting (simple game theory - coordinative outcomes become less likely the higher the number of players). I'm not sure how easily this could be implemented, but if it can be done with the limited resources Funcom are willing to allocate to AoC, it's certainly something that they should bear in mind.

Old 6th March 2012, 18:45
#7 D-Drago

/ signed with sarco

20th March 2012, 16:57
#8 Unsain

Quote:
Originally Posted by borystakieimie View Post

Signed and lets get going...

Old 28th March 2012, 07:53
#9 Leonidus

/signed

like the idea of pvp mats to craft pvp gear dropping but i should think they will put this into the new pvp pve bosses rather than player drops...well you cant blame them, pvp players will just take their mates out and farm each other till they get the drops they need...like the old days of pvp xp gain from players and i would visit ce to see everyone just farming mates over and over to get xp...sad really.

Old 28th March 2012, 17:10
#10 Matram

/Signed

It would really boost open world pvp (back to the old golden days) and at the same time motivate people to explore or take another tour through the beatiful world of Hyboria.