Fixing DT stats

[Boesch]

DT doesn't need to have it's magic damage re-tweaked to work off Str & Combat Rating. And the reason is that a DT is a tank. Meaning if it wishes to tank, it won't be capable of doing so wearing cloth or light armor. In T4 the DT sword & tali both have magic damage on them. And you are free to use whatever accessories you like.

If they were to put your idea into effect, then the DT class would need a major nerf. And considering that the DT in PVE is exactly where it should be, that would not be in the best interest of the community.

And to anyone who thinks that DT is to OP, and that VoM should be nerfed. The fact is, Irritate & Seal of Chaos are the 2 tools that a DT has to direct a mob towards it (with Seal of Chaos on a long cooldown for a taunt), the rest of the DT's ability to generate hate is via the DPS that it does. It is a DPS tank, it doesn't have a lot of tools to generate hate since it wasn't designed to generate hate via taunts and abilities. And anyone who still thinks that there is a hate modifier attached to Blood for Aid need not reply, I have no respect for fantasy opinions that find there backing in the bromance department of late night vent channels of crap guilds.

Obviously in denial when a DT can tank while doing 2k DPS or higher and just **** the aggro off of everyone.

Or obviously in denial when a DT can solo frenzy tank some 6mans.

Perfectly fair and balanced. Best tank and best DPS in the one class and sometimes at the same time.

[Korando-AoC]

I have zero knowledge of programing, so I'm really just wondering out loud, but how hard would it be to make a the DT's spells scale/work from Str or Combat Rating instead of Wis/Spell Power?
A few lines of code here and there? Super-major overhaul? What?

I can't be the only one who thinks it's incredibly dumb that the best DPS gear for a soldier class is Priest Spell Power gear...

Fact that DT relies both on physical and magic damage just adds more complexity and variety to the class.
Gear choice is part of the complexity so I really wish Funcom doesn't change how DT works from this point of view.
It's the fun aspect of this class that it is a melee tank class wich deals magic damage.

[Korando-AoC]

Obviously in denial when a DT can tank while doing 2k DPS or higher and just **** the aggro off of everyone.

Or obviously in denial when a DT can solo frenzy tank some 6mans.

Perfectly fair and balanced. Best tank and best DPS in the one class and sometimes at the same time.

Most of these sentences are wrong.

DT in frenzy can't tank anything ofc.
Using dread shadow is definitely not tanking if that's what you are talking about, and there are no 6 men which you could "solo tank" by just using Dread Shadow anyway.

"Best DPS" class doesn't mean just top damage.
DT has no deaggro tool, and in wisdom gear it will end dieing most of the time by going full out, so in the end it will be able to deal lower DPS than most of DPS classes in real raid sistuations.

Also not true that DT totally **** the aggro of other tanks.
Good Guard and good DT ofc will be able to fight for aggro in average fights. Then ofc there are fights which are better for DT and fights which are better for Guards.
But Guard in general is a more verstaile tank, and the class which is nearest to waht you called "best tank" class.

I don't want to be rude, but it's really quite a stupid "QQ nerf" claim to say that DT is "best tank and best DPS in the one class and sometimes at the same time".

[Deathsader]

Obviously in denial when a DT can tank while doing 2k DPS or higher and just **** the aggro off of everyone.

Or obviously in denial when a DT can solo frenzy tank some 6mans.

Perfectly fair and balanced. Best tank and best DPS in the one class and sometimes at the same time.

a DT can only do 2k DPS while in a full Desecration build, sacrificing massive survivability, and Dread Shadow, which is arguably one of the strongest abilities in the game. Can a DT do as you say? Absolutely, but can it do it in a traditional tank spec, no. It requires a custom spec to pull off what you said, not to mention either a mega solid healer if your in a raid, or a really good off tank. One could argue that a Conq could go full Carnage and pull solid DPS as well with a general tree set for defense. Obviously not as strong as a DT, due to the magic modifier not being effected from neutral to defensive, but still the DPS would be competitive.

As far as best DPS goes, I think Necro and Conq hold that title although the Necros I run with tend to be major sh**.

[Boesch]

DT can do up to (and in some circumstances beyond) 2k DPS while tanking in defensive stance first of all.

Second of all they can tank (Palace hard mode) in frenzy without use of a dread.

Thirdly desecration is by no means a 'massive hit to survivability' when done right. In fact it can be more survivable because of extra damage = extra taps.

If you haven't seen this before, you haven't seen a well geared and AA'd DT before.

I'll fraps frenzy tanking next time if you are so cynical about it.

[Deathsader]

DT can do up to 2k DPS while tanking in defensive stance first of all.

Second of all they can tank (Palace hard mode) in frenzy without use of a dread.

If you haven't seen it, you haven't seen a well geared and AA'd DT before.

I'll fraps it next time if you are so cynical about it.

Palace is hardly a solid place to try and prove the point of frenzy DT tanking. That boss can be tanked in crap gear and low mitigation in the 40's and do just fine. If you can show me a DT video of a DT frenzy tanking in T3 or T4 raid, then I'd be willing to have a look. But if you try frenzy DT tanking in fights like the first boss in HoC, Den of Crowmen, Coppice, Tian, Ai District, ect then the outcome obviously isn't good.

But lets be realistic for a second, the only DT's pulling 2k+ DPS in tank spec are generally Zodiac DT's trying to flex their muscles in practically full T4. And it's generally the ones who opt for Indomitable Souls, and not Fearless, their designated set. Otherwise, the only DT's I see busting out 2k single target DPS are in clown suits with all the defense of a ToS or Mage.

[Boesch]

I'm not sure what else I need to say - Calore says that "of course you can't frenzy tank", I provided a K6 hard mode example, now that's not good enough because "it doesn't count"?

DT are off the chart at everything.

[Misiuggah]

and there are no 6 men which you could "solo tank" by just using Dread Shadow anyway

What about whole KK?

[Korando-AoC]

We definitely have different ideas about what "to tank" means.

Then my Sin and BS are OP tanks too, cause they can "tank" Malice as well as my DT.

All this discussion is pointless.

The idea to remove magic damage from DT or make it scale with strength / combat rating is just bad and useless. This game has a small develop team not even full time assigned, great idea to give such useful suggestions..

And about Boesch post, I have no idea really what is his point, but what it just seems to me is that it is another "I play fail Guard and/or fail DPS. Pls nerf DT class cause it is too strong, it makes more damage then most DPS classes and tank better than guard in my (probably fail) raid / group, so ofc it must be BEST DPS and BEST TANK all at once at same time".

Only thing which would need some rework in DT are some of the VoM buffs (probably just one), and this has been discussed many times.
But that sentence is just stupid to me, whatever example you can bring.
It's not about logic ("I gave you one example, so I'm right"), it's simply about how game works, and even if DT is a great tank class ofc, it's not "the best tank class" nor "the best DPS class" as well.


For me DT is perfectly fine and a very fun class as it is.
I'd be up for the Critical Damage VoM buff change (not just nerf, which is different) just because many people cries at it.

But I really don't want to see another class (one of the most fun to play for me in PvE) broken for useless "QQ cry nerfs".

[Blindman-au]

But lets be realistic for a second, the only DT's pulling 2k+ DPS in tank spec are generally Zodiac DT's trying to flex their muscles in practically full T4. And it's generally the ones who opt for Indomitable Souls, and not Fearless, their designated set. Otherwise, the only DT's I see busting out 2k single target DPS are in clown suits with all the defense of a ToS or Mage.

So what you're saying is you have seen DTs doing 2K dps in a tank spec while tanking yet you're here arguing that it's not possible? Who cares what gear they have chosen to wear, who cares how geared they are or what fight it is, it is possible!

It's great that the DT is no longer there just to bring the Dread Shadow but being the main tank and topping the parse at the same time is a bit much, might as well just do some raids/fights with DTs and healers... throwing in the odd conq for a rez here and there.