The logic behind T4 gear and the need to adjust its stats.

[Binderato]

Keep in mind there is no specifica reason as why I picked the DT gear. For the love of god, I do not care whether player skip T3 on DT, and I absolutely understand that DTs do not wear T4 gear other than accessories, weapons or sometimes off pieces in PvP.
That is NOT the point of this.

Also those whose going to talk about T3.5 which is irrelevant because it is a halfway tier and it does not make sense to have that why not just called it T4 and make the current T4 into T5?
Also T3.5 gear stats is still noticeable different than T1-3 with also the added Critical damage and other ratings along with Critigation.

By now you've all heard people talking about gear stats, most specifically the Tier 4 gear.

The logic behind T4 gear stats is still unknown to this date.

The stats on these gear are ridiculouss, and it does not match that of the previous obtainable progression Gear, such as the T3. This is to exclude T3.5 which no one does.

For Example

T1 DT chest
Black Spite

1558 Armor
+56 Strength
+64 Constitution
+66 Health
+124 Combat Rating
+22 Hit Rating
+25 Health Tap

Now The progression to Tier 2 Chest piece
Baleful Blood

1724 Armor ----- 10.6% increase
+61 Strength ----- 8.9% increase
+68 Constitution --- 6.2% increase
+72 Health ----- 9.09% increase
+154 Combat Rating - 24.1% increase
+25 Hit Rating ---- 13.6% increase
+28 Health Tap ---- 12.0% increase

The average increase around 12.7% from T1 to T2

Now lets look at T3 DT chest
PainLegion

1752 Armor ----- 1.62% increase
+66 Strength ----- 8.19% increase
+70 Constitution --- 2.94% increase
+79 Health ----- 9.72% increase
+200 Combat Rating - 29.8% increase
+27 Hit Rating ---- 8.00% increase
+30 Health Tap ---- 7.14% increase

This roughly comes out to 9.63 or 10% increase from T2 to T3

Now lets take a look at T4 Which has No restrictions to class archetypes, IE DT can wear all 3 sets of T4 gear. This doesn't make any sense from the previous gear Tier.

However for the sake of this thread Lets put the one that DTs wear the most and most viable for them.

T4 Chest of Fearless Souls

1839 Armor ------ 4.96% increase
+92 Strength ------ 39.4% increase
+82 Constitution ---- 17.14% increase
+0 Health ------ Lost health increase
+0 Combat Rating -- Lost combat rating
+57 Hit Rating ----- 111.1% increase
+62 Critical Rating - addition of Critical Rating (this is huge)
+28 hate increase Rating - addition of hate increase
+73 Critical Damage Rating - addition of crit dmg rating (vital)
+126 Protection -----addition of Protection (vital for pvp)
+0 Health Tap ------ lost health tap

Lets not factor in the unexplainable critical Rating and critical damage ratings and Critigation.

The average % increase from T3 to T4 is 24.65%! This is the overall increase divided by the previous overall stats the number 7

The average % increase from T3 to T4 based only on the available stats of T4 is 43.15%!

This makes absolutely no sense.

Why the sudden huge increase in stats?
Wouldn't this absolutely ruin the balance of progression stats of the previous 3 tier gears?
Why the sudden addition of Critical Ratings? When in fact this game is now solely based on critical hits. Whether its in PvE or PvP.
The more you crit the higher the damage, the faster the enemy dies.

This becomes a huge factor in PvP and it rips the already unbalanced PvP matches a new one.

Lets just assume that every pvper have full pvp 10 gear

Lets also compare same class gear DT Chest again.

The PvP10
Tormentor

1558 Armor
+61 Strength
+76 Constitution
+72 Health
+170 mana
+135 Combat Rating
+60 critical damage Rating
+403 Tenacity
+90 pvp combat rating
+50 pvp hit rating
+178 pvp armor
+524 pvp protection

now the T4

T4 Chest of Fearless Souls

1839 Armor ------ 5.93% increase
384 Critigation ----- 66.2% increase
+92 Strength ------ 50.8% increase
+82 Constitution ---- 7.89% increase
+57 Hit Rating(ignore pvp pve) ----- 14.0% increase
+62 Critical Rating - addition of Critical Rating (this is huge)
+28 hate increase Rating - addition of hate increase
+73 Critical Damage Rating - 21.6% increase
+126 Protection ----- 315% decrease

Lets again ignore the huge factor of Critical Rating, also protection (pve gear with protection?)

The average increase in the specific stats is 27.73% increase from the T3 pvp gear.

What is the logic behind this? If T4 pvp gear is not to be released then why should T4 pve gear be allowed in pvp?

While also having a small percentage of protection?
Why are these allowed in pvp and why is the balance and percentage of increase in stats are way over the top?

I didn't even get into the T4 accessories and weapons yet, which makes a huge impact and class changer in pvp.
I will not go into details with T4 weapons and accessories as the point is already made with the T4 chest gear vs the rest.
Im sure the T4 weapons are even more Overpowered in stats compared to the T1-3 PvE and specifically the T1-3 PvP weapons which absolutely sucks and it is not even on par with PvE tier 1-3.



Funcom Please wake up and see the imbalance in this game.
There is already a huge gap between new players and vets, now with the addition of T4 gear being obtainable by several guilds the Gap is even bigger for the new players and also widened the already existing gap between The vets that do not PvE. We were already disadvantaged in several aspects.
Such as receiving far less AAs and having to rely on time training.
Rely solely on pvp gear which is not on par with some of the PVE gear IE accessories and weapons.
The T4 gear only made it worse.

Funcom please explain your logic in the stats of T4 gear and please address at least some of the imbalance in this situation.

Thank you.

[Binderato]

This is not a complaining thread, but rather point out the flaws of statistics in the Tier 4 raid gear.

I understand that having these Gear available would give players a much broader selection of equipment to PvE or PvP.

I also can understand that players who dedicated their lives to Raiding and T4 would feel very back stabbed and heart broken if Funcom were to Nerf T4 gear or remove it from PvP. This is very understandable as you've all spent so much time investing into these Raids.

However the glaring imbalance of the gear gap is huge and it is upsetting the balance even further, especially in pvp.



Suggestion for Funcom

Limit the PVE gear in general from PvP
IE just as the PVP gear stats with purely PvP stats( weapons too)
Adjust the PVE gear in the same way so that it contains Global stats(works in pvp and pve) and pure PvE stats that is ment for PVE.

This is the best solution to both sides.
The players who pride themselves with T4 gear would not loose anything in their PvE field, whether its agro or dps.

The new players in PvP would not have to worry about dying instantly to Overly geared PvP players and Overly Geared PVE players who pvp. Now they only have to worry about already existing geared out PVP players.

This also closes the gap in terms of gear between the casual PvP crowd and the hardcore more devoted Pvpers who also enjoys PvE.



Why not Kill two birds with one stone Funcom?

[Erock25]

I laughed so hard at your 23% increase from t3 to t4 which is totally out of whack because hit rating went from 20s to 50s. You've done a great job skewing the numbers to the advantage of your argument.

Also remind me again why t3.5 doesn't count in this progression of pve gear? Oh yeah, just to further your wildly inconsistent and flawed argument.

Ignoring the protection drop off when comparing to pvp gear? Did you try intentionally to make your argument ridiculous?

[Binderato]

I laughed so hard at your 23% increase from t3 to t4 which is totally out of whack because hit rating went from 20s to 50s. You've done a great job skewing the numbers to the advantage of your argument.

Also remind me again why t3.5 doesn't count in this progression of pve gear? Oh yeah, just to further your wildly inconsistent and flawed argument.

Totally out of whack?
I think not, this is the statistical way of calculating, add up all the numbers divide by how many there are. The 23% came from dividing by 7 which is based on the T3 gear which is absolutely fair since only 4 of those stats made it to T4

I also gave the average % increase in the 4 stats alone which is over 40%

You can't deny that this is wrong, the numbers are not skewed either because I've provided EACH stats increase in % so if you do not want to look at the average or mean increase then look at the stats in gear one by one it is followed by a % increase from before.



Why T3.5 is not in this?

Because no one has T3.5 gear, because T3.5 doesn't make sense on its own. When you progress from 1 to 2 to 3, you don't just have a 3.5 then 4. Especially if you can Skip 3.5 or the fact that 3.5 is harder than T4.

Also why not call T3.5 tier 4? Why create a halfway point? Rename T4 to Tier 5.
It doesn't really matter.
In the end, the numbers don't lie.
PvP gear is not on par with PvE gear it is that simple.


The protection drop off is not even a factor.
It should be noted that it is an additional stat that wasn't present in T1-3. So it is irrelevant.
Why are you twisting every one of my word, when the cold hard truth of a reality is right in front of you?
T4 gear is out of proportion to its previous Obtainable PvE gear and the current PvP gear. It is that simple

[Herath13]

heh, it's not the first thread that just ignored everything that didn't support the POV of the poster, I guess Black Dragon gear doesn't count either, which is funny considering no DT goes for the Painlegion set unless they want it for vanity or just lols. The thread could have just said "give us new PvP armor now" and that would have done.

BTW, lots of people have T3.5 gear, maybe not on your server, and not many do it now, doesn't mean it doesn't exist and isn't a raiding tier....

[Korando-AoC]

All these calcs are honestly pointless.

For example generally a tank will perform a lot better in PvP T3 gear than in T4 (in PvP of course), because of the extra protection.

There are aspects that can't be highlighted simply by an average % increase of all stats, because you can't assign the same weight to every stat.

Clearly T4 gear is not a linear progression of T1-T3 gear (which is mostly a linear update of a single set in most cases, with same stats), but for many classes T3 gear was already obsolete after Kithai release, which dates 2010 (so it was obsolete for 2 years already when T4 was released).

It's perfectly ok that T4 gear is not comparable to T1-T3.

There are problems, but they are elsewhere and are discussed already extensively in many threads.

PvP gear for example is obsolete, but this is not completely related to T4 PvE gear.

[Chillee]

The true buff from T3 to T4 is really mostly about 10% or so for most classes. You picked DT gear because DT t1-3 gear sucks. Few DTs actually get T3 DT gear, they usually go for BD, and any T3 DT gear they do use is only there as a filler until they get BD or K6 gear. There are many pieces which are only small upgrades from K6 gear.

Total misrepresentation of the actual truth.

[Binderato]

keep in mind as this is just a simple comparison of gear stats.

I could of and should of used Weapons or one of the accessories instead.

By using the DT chest armor does not mean that am talking about DTs or the fact hat DTs even wear this in PvP.

It is just to make a point.

As to to that "everyone has t3.5" guy
Well maybe your server do. But ours don't. Not everyone and T4 is far easier.
This again comes to down to why have a t3.5 and not just call it t4
while making the existing T4 into T5?

Does having a halfway point of 3.5 justify the overly powered progression of stats on the T4 gear?

What about the new additional stats that have been introduced? Crit Rating, Crit Damage etc.

[Erock25]

T3.5 Milites Temple Chest

1748 Armor
384 Critigation Amount
+91 Strength
+74 Constitution
+168 Combat Rating
+62 Hit Rating
+61 Critical Rating
+63 Critical Damage Rating

T4 Indomnitable Chest

1748 Armor ---> 0%
384 Critigation Amount ---> 0%
+93 Strength ---> 2.2% increase
+85 Constitution ---> 14.9%
+240 Combat Rating ---> 42.9%
+56 Hit Rating ---> -9.7%
+61 Critical Rating ---> 0%
+72 Critical Damage Rating ---> 14.3%


There is only an average of 8.1% increase from T3.5 to T4.... I DEMAND YUO BUFF T4 CHEST NNOOOWWWW!!!

[Binderato]

T3.5 Milites Temple Chest

1748 Armor
384 Critigation Amount
+91 Strength
+74 Constitution
+168 Combat Rating
+62 Hit Rating
+61 Critical Rating
+63 Critical Damage Rating

T4 Indomnitable Chest

1748 Armor ---> 0%
384 Critigation Amount ---> 0%
+93 Strength ---> 2.2% increase
+85 Constitution ---> 14.9%
+240 Combat Rating ---> 42.9%
+56 Hit Rating ---> -9.7%
+61 Critical Rating ---> 0%
+72 Critical Damage Rating ---> 14.3%


There is only an average of 8.1% increase from T3.5 to T4.... I DEMAND YUO BUFF T4 CHEST NNOOOWWWW!!!

Great, and how many people have that?

Also wouldn't this and shouldn't this make T4 actually T5?

Wouldn't this further proves that PvP gear is not on par with PvE?