PvP Minigames whats the point?

[Mathieulombardi]

You do know that there are protection on t4 tank gear right?

[kalston]

A T4 Tank though has almost no invulns ey die in seconds when casters focus them. They really do not improve from the damage granted by the t4 armor because it's about the same as the pvp armor.

Well first off there's a t4 set with a reasonable amount of protection and secondly both fearless and indomitable sets give tons of hp and crits anyway so the damage does improve greatly for DTs - it's less noticeable on conqs and guards that's true. But then don't forget critigation, tanks get 40% critigation chance passively and 80% if they go for elusive nature. So minimum 40% chance to mitigate 55% (+/- don't remember the numbers for t4 set) of the critical damage. Critigation on pvp set is a mere 35%. And protection isn't the only thing that matters in pvp anyway, physical mitigation does too because of the hordes of rangers and there t4 wins any day.

We can agree though that not many tanks go for full t4 in pvp and usually just mix small parts + pvp big ones because the protection on pvp set is still unmatched. But on Fury I can tell you many DTs go for t4 legs + pvp legs (or the other way around) and not only do they hurt, but they are also true raidbosses. Soldiers don't need t4 to be OP for sure, but it still helps them (mostly the weapons and accessories but the armours can help too).

[Suctum]

Well first off there's a t4 set with a reasonable amount of protection and secondly both fearless and indomitable sets give tons of hp and crits anyway so the damage does improve greatly for DTs - it's less noticeable on conqs and guards that's true. But then don't forget critigation, tanks get 40% critigation chance passively and 80% if they go for elusive nature. So minimum 40% chance to mitigate 55% (+/- don't remember the numbers for t4 set) of the critical damage. Critigation on pvp set is a mere 35%. And protection isn't the only thing that matters in pvp anyway, physical mitigation does too because of the hordes of rangers and there t4 wins any day.

We can agree though that not many tanks go for full t4 in pvp and usually just mix small parts + pvp big ones because the protection on pvp set is still unmatched. But on Fury I can tell you many DTs go for t4 legs + pvp legs (or the other way around) and not only do they hurt, but they are also true raidbosses. Soldiers don't need t4 to be OP for sure, but it still helps them (mostly the weapons and accessories but the armours can help too).

Your missing the point. Even the protection set (which many don't go for) gives much less protection that the pvp set. I'm not debating if you can mix and match small pieces or one main piece and do well, I'm responding to the guy who claimed he gets dumped on by full t4 soldiers.

I have fought full t4 soldiers and I can tell you they melt just as fast a barb even in the protection gear, which no one goes for as a first set. Put that same soldier in pvp armor and it takes 3x longer to kill them if you can kill them at all. That's my point. Maxing DPS as a soldier at the cost of protection is not smart, since that protection mitigates not only magic damage but some of the magic combat rating, critigation is whatever so is tenacity. Very small factors that contribute little when 3 or 4 people are hitting you. Wearing items that make you lose the best protection rating in game to squeeze a few points on crit rating and combat rating here and there is not a great idea. The soldiers I see who do the best are the ones with T3+ weapons and full pvp armor and accessories.

*The DT is different because you need that crit rating, and CoI/Hex Mark Soul can make up the loss in some protection to get the appropriate gear.

[kalston]

I am not missing the point but I disagree about soldiers in full t4 melting as fast as barb : they got much more hp (+various survivability tools) and they get much more (in fact, twice as much) protection than all other classes from general tree as well (and many soldiers do spec that to get improved frenzy and possibly cunning deflection too). Let's not forget defensive stance and other buffs.

Most soldiers are going for kills and no one is focusing them anyway so I don't think it's stupid to push crits and combat rating when you don't carry the flag. I have played my guard in full tiger gear more than once (I am more of a flag carrier though but sometimes I feel like experimenting) and topped kills with ease even against lots of casters. It's no different with DTs in SC gear or carnie conqs in full tiger (or t4) set.

Yes pvp gear is amazing for soldiers but so is t4. Just not for the same reasons And these days soldiers are so good at killing that I do believe dps geared soldiers have their place in pvp - even in premades.

*and t4 gear has so much hit rating and critical damage rating that you could go for chromatic warding as well (getting very close full pvp set protection while keeping an insane critical rating)

[Korando-AoC]

Against t4 you are still weak.

I use pvp 5 stuff, and when i meet t4 demo or another guys, he explode me, not because i don't know how to play (hello noite) but because his damage, his resistance, all his stats are far more stronger than mine, this is mathematic, he take less damage and make you very more, and people still say gear don't count ?

People must learn mathematic. With t4 caster become very resistant, and their dps is so awesome, make them terminator.

What kind of more resistance vs a conq or any other tank a caster gets with T4 gear?

Ofc T4 gear gives to casters (but also to sin and rangers) a lot of DPS, but doesnt't add any significative defencive stat over melee damage.
A bit constitution and armor, both irrelevant compared to PvP T2 set.

Imo you are the one who is really not analyzing gear, and just trying to impose your feelings.

One caster in T4 gear who takes less damage then a tank???
Are you joking?

Put 1 good sin or just good heavies/BS/Babr etc in enemy group and caster (if doesn't leave game, as many do) get farmed to hell.
Btw, sins (good and geared one at least) are a joke vs demo/necro, LO is ridicolously OP, whatever is your gear.

[Sygmaelle]

and so bad i didn't want play year to get less gear than pve boy.

It's far faster to get pvp than PvE gear. People that don't do any raid usually tend to believe the opposite, and for crafted weapons its also expensive as ****.

If you don't know what you re talkin about, well, don't say things you re not aware of

I got lucky once with my DT for her T2 set. It took ~2 months and a half, all the rest well it lasted at least 10 months for a full set

[Lurvi]

Ofc T4 gear gives to casters a lot of DPS, but doesnt't add any significative defencive stat over melee damage.
A bit constitution and armor, both irrelevant compared to PvP T2 set.

Well you're not analyzing gear well either imo. You're to say t4 gear is not op for casters?
There is more of every stat except protection! You need to think about what stat is the most important for what class.

If you look at armor pieces only (excluding accessories):

Magic damage - 218 more in t4 pve over t2 pvp
Critical Rating - 112 more t4 pve over t2 pvp

These are already sick gains. A caster gain alot from these stats, with their nature to burn enemies fast and gain the upper hand.

Armor - 64 more in t4 pve over t2 pvp
Constitution - 27 more in t4 pve over t2 pvp

Even more sickening that you're also gaining some defensive stats. Gaining from the pvp-set which is known to be the most defensive one. Protection, ok you'll loose quite abit, but you'll have a sufficient ammount with class protectionbuff and maybe some defensive accessories or feats depending on build...

A burst class like demo, ranger, sin benefit too much here. Suctum is absolutely correct. I agree with his view on t4 armor, but the main problem for melees and tanks lay around very powerful weapons to mix with PvP gear.

[Harmonium]

Thanks lurvi

We all know we said the truth here

but some don't want hear it, because they use this stuff to gain advantages in pvp

Remove them, they will suffer.

[Korando-AoC]

Well you're not analyzing gear well either imo. You're to say t4 gear is not op for casters?

Is that what I wrote?
Maybe read again?

It's pointless to reply cause you just wanted to attack me.. anyway: I talked JUST about survivability vs melees.

T4 Armor: 2.604
PvP T2 Armor: 2.519
PvP T3 Armor: 2.560
Max difference: 85 Armor

T4 HP: 3.216
PvP T2/T3 HP: 2.969
Difference: 247 HP

Does this justifies Harmonium sentence "With t4 caster become very resistant"? < 250HP and <90 Armor?
This simply makes Harmonium sentence wrong, if mathematic is not an opinion.

Actually if you talk about resistance in general (not only about "melee" resistance, that was what I was talking about since harmonium plays a melee class) PvP gear is > PvE T4, since it adds more protection.

I'm not saying that PvP gear is better than T4 gear for casters, I never use PvP gear on demo (apart few parts very rarely).
PvE T4 gear is by far best gear available for caster in PvP, as well as for Rangers and Sins imho (and this is not good, since it generates a gap for players who doesn't want to PvE and just play PvP; but this is true also for Kithai gear, even if in lower measure).
Tanks, BSs should use mostly PvP gear imho, but this is another topic.


I'm just saying that you attacked me talking about something different than what I was talking about.
But you already know this...



Btw, if you are lazy to scroll up, this is what I wrote:

Ofc T4 gear gives to casters (but also to sin and rangers) a lot of DPS, but doesnt't add any significative defencive stat over melee damage.
A bit constitution and armor, both irrelevant compared to PvP T2 set.

You have reading problems if you got sentence "T4 gear is not OP for casters"

[Lurvi]

I only wanna attack you? I asked if you really mean this... imo you neglect what matters, and your way of looking at it was wrong. Do you see the questionmark?

I didn't even read Harmoniums post much, I mainly saw yours. I read the post now though, and he's correct too. In t4 casters are too resistent with too much damage.
There is nothing "irrelevant" (your words) about such increase in damage along with armor/con. This word was what I reacted on, irrelevant. I don't mean to attack, only inform. My apologies.