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Thread: Be honest...

  1. #1

    Default Be honest...

    In terms of AE damage, are Demos much better than ToSs?

    So I have been posting in this forum quite a bit lately as I recently returned to AoC (and never got too high at release anyways).
    And I really like the AE power of my quad of ToSs. Things going well. But I am curious about how powerful Demos are in terms of AE damage. I've toyed with the idea of trying a group of three Havoc Demos and a ToS.
    I guess Demos have a few more forms of CC. They get a pet that buffs them and the group. And they have a variety of DD spells. But if you are interested in doing AE damage as a Demo you are going to go Havoc line and just use Shock Strike and Shock Blast - and most stuff will be dead before you get to Waves of Flame.

    I know people who play Demos rant about their class being the best and all. So I thought I would ask how you guys thought you compare to Demos - at least in terms of AE damage.

    Thanks,
    Mal

  2. #2

    Default

    ToS has strong AoE capabilities.

    Storm Field, Idol(s), Aura of Nebthu and Storm Crown makes everything die really quick if used together. However you need to stand close because of the short self centered range of Storm Field. While these four are active, you can AoE with Coils and Call Lightning. The drawback is lengthy cooldown on Coils, Call Lightning and Aura of Nebthu.

    Compared to Demo that really doesn't have long cooldowns on their spells at all.

    Shockblast has 2,5 seconds cooldown, 360 degree, 8 meter radius (can be increased to 10 meter radius)

    Inferno of Amher 2 seconds cooldown (can be reduced further by feats), 360 degree, same radius as Shockblast.

    Waves of Flame 5 seconds cooldown. 180 degree frontal, 8 meter radius. With Ring of Fire perk.

    Conclusion is for sustainable AoE dps, the Demo is better. For AoE burst, the tos can be almost as good, but the difference being Demo is one spell at a time, and Tos need to cast 3-4 spells to tick at once before the AoE becomes really good. And both Storm Field and Aura of Nebthu is self centered. The Demo can place the AoE wherever in 20 meters range, or choose where to shoot Waves of Flame.

  3. #3

    Default

    Depends on how many targets there are to hit. In most situations of trash clearing Demo and TOS AOE dps is the same as there isn't more than 5 mobs or more than 5 mobs (minions that spawn with add pulls) around for very long so the AOE of the demo doesn't outshine a TOS.

    Go to a fight like Seruah or Sebazios where you have a lot of mobs to hit and the TOS is only consistently hitting 5 mobs as Stormfield hits a max of 5 targets (Aura of Nebthu does hit 12 targets from memory) and the demo is able to hit 12 mobs with their AOE and the demo goes ahead on AOE dps.

    Also if you want to go with an AOE spec for demo then you can just alternate your AOEs using the debuff every time it's available as well.

    Personally I think the demo shines for more than just its AOE dps, it's ranged dps capability is better than a TOS and higher Tier raiding has minimal trash but does require CCs for some fights and you can get a lot of cc with a demo that's feated hybrid. Heals and dps are always welcome in raids and both classes are AOE grinding machines, level one of each since you'll need alts as your toons get bound to each raid for a week

  4. #4

    Default

    Thanks Buyten,
    That makes sense. I guess I wasnt thinking about sustained DPS as much as burst - which at least initially doesnt seem that much different. On Raids and such I guess its all about sustained DPS. And being able to DPS from a range is clearly an advantage.

    Thanks Blindman,
    I four box, and just got my ToSs to 19th last night. I have a quad of Demos and a quad of Necros at 10th. So by most peoples standards I havent even started playing (because I'm not at 80), but I dont get that much play time and just like to forma group I can wield for an hour or so when I get a chance.
    Guess I need to get my Demos to at least 18th and test out Shock Blast.


    Mal
    Last edited by Malleable60; 7th June 2013 at 11:20.

  5. #5

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    Given that you are yet on the leveling curve, I think once you get Storm Field leveling and grinding with your ToSes will be much smoother.

    You just make your ToSes all activate Storm Crown & Stormfield, run around to pick up 3 or so mobs per tos and then let all place an Idol and then spam heals. You will be damaging them while pulling more constantly and you will have very little downtime given your heals.

    To me I think if I would 4-box I would definately go with ToSes just simply because you don't have to actively target for aoe - especially if you are 4 toses I don't think you'll really need to use anything but field, crown & idol.
    With fond memories of Corinthia RP-PvP...

  6. #6

    Default

    Thanks Nevsky,
    Targeting hasnt been too bad. Tabbing usually brings up mobs pretty easily, but I guess no targeting at all would be a breeze.
    Ground Target Area Effects however are a royal pain - hitting four keyboards I can do. Four mice just doesnt work. But currently no experience with that in this game yet. But I think Demo has GTAE.

    Yeah maybe I will get all four to Storm Field before I test out the Demos.

    Mal

  7. #7

    Default

    Yes, that was what I suspected since boxing usually don't work with four way mouse targetting, and demos indeed do just that - target the ground and click.

    The same goes for the idol of Set - ground clicking that is - but if your "main" tos feats it to max it's really enough for the buffs. The others can take other feats instead then.
    With fond memories of Corinthia RP-PvP...

  8. #8

    Default

    Perfect. One guy can take that. The others can skip it I guess.

    I did do a bit of perusing the Demo feat tree and their fire line seems have a sick number of buffs to fire damage and Fires of Gehenna (100% splash damage).

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Malleable60 View Post
    In terms of AE damage, are Demos much better than ToSs?

    So I have been posting in this forum quite a bit lately as I recently returned to AoC (and never got too high at release anyways).
    And I really like the AE power of my quad of ToSs. Things going well. But I am curious about how powerful Demos are in terms of AE damage. I've toyed with the idea of trying a group of three Havoc Demos and a ToS.
    I guess Demos have a few more forms of CC. They get a pet that buffs them and the group. And they have a variety of DD spells. But if you are interested in doing AE damage as a Demo you are going to go Havoc line and just use Shock Strike and Shock Blast - and most stuff will be dead before you get to Waves of Flame.

    I know people who play Demos rant about their class being the best and all. So I thought I would ask how you guys thought you compare to Demos - at least in terms of AE damage.

    Thanks,
    Mal
    the advantage of both tos&demo in aoe is how fast they can dish out damage, at lvl80 with decent gear and using proper specs both classes can dish out equivalent aoe, but if both sw demo with fully feated ring of fire spamming waves of fail will deal damage faster given that insidious spell does lots of hits and each hit can crit very high.
    in longer fights necromancers will out dps both classes by vast amounts both single target and aoe.

    as a side note your playing aoc the wrong way the uniqueness of this game is best experienced playing melee classes, despite "casters" being fun and pretty demanding compared to other mmo's without a doubt the most unique feature of this game is with melee classes.
    i would sugest you abort this magical caster project and try out bs-hox-dt those 3 are very unique and unparaleled classes and all of wich very dynamic, damanding and overall fun from lvl 1 to lvl 80 and beyond

    cheers
    FORUM PVP LVL 10

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by noite80 View Post
    as a side note your playing aoc the wrong way the uniqueness of this game is best experienced playing melee classes, despite "casters" being fun and pretty demanding compared to other mmo's without a doubt the most unique feature of this game is with melee classes.
    i would sugest you abort this magical caster project and try out bs-hox-dt those 3 are very unique and unparaleled classes and all of wich very dynamic, damanding and overall fun from lvl 1 to lvl 80 and beyond
    Boxing melees just doesnt work. There is no way to effectively play multiple combo classes. I mean if I could rake my fingers down three keyboards and do '1', '2', '3' for each of the guys at the same time and have all their combos go off nicely I guess it would work. But I believe combos take you actually watching the screen for successes. Even playing the same class probably wouldnt work. Boxing just isnt something you can do dynamically.
    I can time things nicely. I can rotate stuns effectively. But I can't watch three screens at the same time and respond effectively.
    But I could give four BS a shot just for fun.
    Last edited by Malleable60; 7th June 2013 at 15:18.

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