Premium improvements for all?

[stiiixy]

Free AA's is a good thing. It's another thing that get's people interested in the expansion instead of fading away before 80, because they have something to show for it when they get there, and it makes the grind that much easier (there are no XP pots for F2P!)

The annoying part about being a paying vet is we're getting nothing for the payment in the veteran reward system. Monthly enjoyment of premium game content aside.

All we get are updated pathing's now. I'm not asking for raid gear or Khitai from vet points myself, just fun and unique items like guild city and personal vanity items, personal storage in the form of apartments (I still have the dusty old painting rom Tortage) etc.

More flashy things to brag to new player's about =D

[Arishanya]

Personally speaking I don't care if I get the AAs on my 80s or not. Being that I've played since launch, most of my 80s are already or nearly maxed out on every AA I want anyway. For my 'newer' 80s that aren't, well I just don't care that I missed out on these AAs. I have played this game and loved playing it - I don't need this extra bonus to keep playing the game.

If Joel were to look back and say 'how can I give something to the vets since these bonus AAs do more for new players?' I'd rather he look at the vet rewards or player housing/trophy rooms, or some cool cloak that indicates how many years I've been subbed or something like that.

[Khaletohep]

There's three groups:
1: new and future players that still level their toons
2: current players that have completed levelling (or nearly so)
3: current veteran players that have completed levelling and already got a well outfitted AA tree.

Group 1 gets more AA. This allows them to jump right into all dungeon activities at level 80 after getting basic equipment. Good thing.

Group 3 has little real need for additional AA. Their old characters already have all the AA skills necessary. New twinks benefit from the new rule, and with offline levels and buddys who help with grind leveling, a new level 80 toon is a matter of one weekend or so.
Additional AA won't hurt here, either. As the costs are progressive, 80 expertise points give only a small improvement by now. Thus, giving them some more pixel points costs you nothing (except implementation effort) and gets rid of a reason (sensible or not) to complain. I'd take the way of lesser resistance, but both are viable here.

Group 2 currently gets the short end of the stick. They don't benefit from the expertise giveaway, and are stuck in the gap between levelling and early raids and doing anything of the more current and popular content like Kithai HMs or T3 (yes, AA skills aren't needed for T3 - argued that in global some days ago and got shouted down by those raiders who demand new players not to get into T3 without maxed out AA skills).

New veteran rewards like player housing would benefit group 3. Nothing against getting more stuff, but group 2 should imho be the focus in this discussion.

Personally, I'll start offering T1 raids again. It's a great way to introduce new players into the raiding business, and allows people to equip their toons for more serious activities. Giving them some "free" AA would help to remove the other barrier they face.

[Shax84]

(yes, AA skills aren't needed for T3 - argued that in global some days ago and got shouted down by those raiders who demand new players not to get into T3 without maxed out AA skills).

Not "needed" per say. But characters without Decisive and Pressing Strikes ranked 5, Guards without Stall the Advance and Improved Irritate, DTs without Void of Madness, Sins without Cover of Dusk and -5% hate, Healers without Celestial Gaze and Sleuth of Bears (Vision of the Sky)/Idol of Dark Rejuvenation (Coils of the Serpent)/Shimmering Invocation, Demos without Waves of Flame, Cacodemon/Bindings of the Skylord, Subtle Illusion, -5% hate... They just will not do as good job as one with them AAs. There are of course more AAs that enhance your characters performance overall but in a more neglible state.

Also, towards getting the AAs, the characters with these AAs likely got some Khitai gear. Rather than green 50 or blue trader 80.

[Yennefer]

Joel is taking good time to explain everything and its 100 % clear and not unfair at all
Some of you sound like kids who whine if you don't get that "red bike" lol

But in AoC you can get that "red bike", just roll new alt and let him be nine year old

Giving AAs for old characters would be whole different thing, no where is info that you get it. Just new characters get it, not new players, BUT characters with sub

There is no difference between new player and old player, both of you get them if you make new character, again, not player

Finally, this post just saved bunch of my free time so that i don't have to write exactly the same thing. Clear and straight to the point explanation, if someone can't understand it after this post then just lol.

[runningcorpse]

My thoughts on this are that:

If a new player today comes to this game and decides to level a toon they get 1 aa point per level, and that is great.

Also if a veteran player today levels up a toon they also get 1 aa point per level, and that is great.

But the thing is if you are a veteran player you decided to come to this game earlier, maybe when the game had a bad reputation and what not. But you supported the game and knew this game was great.
So you leveled your toon and got it to 80 all the same as the new player will do but the veteran player decided to do it earlier.

The veteran player that made the same decision to start playing this game feels that just because they decided to start playing the game first or earlier that they are now not able to get something that a new player can.
Both new and old players level their characters but only the veteran players decided to do it earlier before this system was implemented and now it seems like we are over looked because we supported the game before others.

I understand that the system is equal currently, but the thing is that veteran players and new players differ in that one decided to join the Age of Conan sooner than the other and I think they feel that because they supported the game sooner that they are now being shorted for it.

I understand it isn't meant to be that way, but as a veteran player myself I know that is how I feel.

Yeah anyone can now make a new toon and level them up to what ever and get aa while they do that.
But, and some others have brought this up, as a veteran I have toons that I do not want to delete and re-create because maybe vanity items or gold or other items that I collected on my journeys in Hyboria that are on that toon and took a lot of time to get and to complete challenges to acquire and it is these things that I think myself and other veteran players do not want to have to go back and remake our toon in order to get the great addition of the aa's.

So I guess to sum it up I think it is not equal to grant something to a new player that a veteran can not have because the veteran player was here first, yet all characters are now given no matter what for the same thing that a veteran player did but sooner.

I really hope that a solution can be made so that veteran players will be able to gain the 80 aa points. It is a great addition.

Please also add more mini games and variety of mini games....3 v 3 or more fun objectives... also add more severed body parts that is freakin awesome i love picking up someones skull and sacrificing it. It would be cool also if it was a real head or arm..

[runningcorpse]

analogies are great but I think there is an error in some of them. The child one with money would be more like this.

Child A is 9 and he takes the garbage out everyday and gets nothing. when that child turns 25 and moves out his parents other child who is 9 begins taking out the trash but he now gets $2000 bucks when he does it.
The first child no longer has to take out the garbage at his parents house because he is level 80.
The younger child has to take out the garbage because he still lives with mom and dad. When the child leaves his parents house he will of course no longer have to take out the trash at his parents house.

Questions going through first child's head... Is child two the favorite? Do my parents hate me? Do my parents not love me? Do they love my other brother more than me? .... you get the point I think.

I think this is a closer analogy than the others I have read. Thanks for reading.

[stiiixy]

Personally speaking I don't care if I get the AAs on my 80s or not. Being that I've played since launch, most of my 80s are already or nearly maxed out on every AA I want anyway. For my 'newer' 80s that aren't, well I just don't care that I missed out on these AAs. I have played this game and loved playing it - I don't need this extra bonus to keep playing the game.

If Joel were to look back and say 'how can I give something to the vets since these bonus AAs do more for new players?' I'd rather he look at the vet rewards or player housing/trophy rooms, or some cool cloak that indicates how many years I've been subbed or something like that.

=O

A cloak with stripes per year? And maybe possibly perhaps at the end of days it could be like the token baord from AO and made useful. Customise your cloak. Something for the crafting revamp mayhap.

And for PvPenis, a necklace with skulls per pvp level or some-such. And a cod-piece shaped phallicly (to make up for their lack of) that grows with each stupid comment made with 'come at me' son, kid, lols comment in global.

Okay that last bit is just fun. But still. SOMETHING! Make addicts have a sense of accomplishment and stop giving us enema's!

[Kurt2013]

Finally, this post just saved bunch of my free time so that i don't have to write exactly the same thing. Clear and straight to the point explanation, if someone can't understand it after this post then just lol.

Of course he took his time and he DID explain things (and i appreciate the effort). This does not mean he is right though. One can say, it was a 100% clear explanation how he believes an unfair change actually is a fair one in his eyes. Imo, he was proven wrong about this by more people than just me.

And yes, it was not said, that old characters are getting the points too. But this is a mistake and a completely unnecessary one as well. As Khaletotep explained just again, this is NOT a selfish whine for goodies (he does not need them; they might have been a lure to resub for me, but i don't need them either), but rather pointing out the (for some plain obvious) flaws and consequences of an otherwise good idea.

Facts are:
- vets and new players are treated differently
- certain groups of players/chars are being not adressed and neglected by that change
- low level game pvp balance between already levelled and new players is (or will be) considerably "changed"
- there have been customers insulted and feeling treated unfairly (be it because of "bad luck", "ill timing", "purpose" or whatever reason)
- people with already levelled chars and invested money and time on them will not likely delete them and reroll
- the new rule will give only new characters (and partly levelled ones IF they decide to level past a point) a reason to be subbed while levelling and a good start for khitai at 80 (a lesser start for already partly levelled ones)
- they promised to look into it, but with each day it becomes harder to do the proposed solution in a fair way

There was no disagreement, that the new rule applies to everyone (like the GD tried to explain), but about fairness and treatment.
I still miss any real argument against giving AA points to everyone, if the aim is to reduce the gap and make subs more attractive. There will only be benefits involved imo (drama solved, gap lessened for all, fair treatment, the sub is made more attractive for old players, too etc.).

[Rathothis]

I see a lot of arguments being made about new players benefiting more than vets.

These arguments fail to convince. The vast majority of new players starts out as ftp and thus doesn't benefit from the move. People who benefit the most are vets with a subscription who powerlevel yet another alt to level 80.

And the only people who "suffer" from the change are subscribers who powerlevelled yet another alt to 80 less than two months ago (80 AAs = 60 das of time training). Note that these players are not at a disadvantage vs new players who by and large are FTP, but only against other vets who powerlevel an alt within the next two months max.

So clearly the argument that new players are receiving better treatment than vets fails.

If anything, I think that the way FC hands out AAs doesn't really provide new players with the right incentives to subscribe at the point when they are most likely to do so (I believe that this is when they reach level 80 - ofc Funcom data might prove me wrong). In order to achieve this, it would probably be better to give any toon 80 AA points as soon as both of the following conditions are met (i) the toon reaches level 80, and (ii) the account has a subscription, irrespective of whether the user had a subscription while levelling the toon.