Is it time to retire T1+W1?

[letsdance]

These days new level 80's start raiding the very instant they reach endgame, often not even doing a single dungeon before, raiding with shitty gear is socially acceptable.

The problem with T1+W1 in my opinion is that players spend several months (1-80+T1/2) not learning anything about the game. Many players simply gear up to T2 raid gear and are still pretty clueless as most players learn extremly little about the game.

The learning curve to get into hardmodes becomes much bigger than it really has to be.

Noone cares if you do extremly bad dps, or if you can't tank as a soldier in T1/W1. Rogues can have as little as 6% hit rating in Full T2 gear, which is too little to guarantee you can remove abilities on hardmode bosses.

What the game need instead is some sort of progression that teaches the players the stuff they need to know past T2 in a better way, and also reward them with gear with usefull stats (critigation ammount, heal rating, hit rating etc,depending on class).

I'm pretty sure that a lot of players simply drop out of the game after T2 because the learning curve to get into hardmodes is too great, that could be tanking, low dps, or removing Burn Skin etc.

The players who only do the raids each week, also have very little content per week, NM Khitai dungeons are not that popular since you can earn like 12 tokens a day in solo dungeons, and few have time to do that many NM dungeons so solo dungeons are more rewarding.

Vorbiz Edit: Removed profanities

[bogus]

Welcome in Age of Whinning: Rise of Nerfing for Dummies.

But what do you really want?
No one would close easy dungeons - FC cannot afford removing content if they can't give something in return.
As no one would reverse all nerfs or redesign whole level 80 content - it's not possible physically.

Yes, it's about time to leave t1/2 for those who spend there most their raiding time. Unless they have fun. If that makes them happy fine enough for me. Even if they do not how to play AoC. Who am I to judge them?

Ofc I'll say how bad they are if we meet in one raid or group.

[letsdance]

But what do you really want?

Just reward players for playing the existing content properly.

It would be much better if players actually played the beginning dungeons and geared up for hardmodes in them in combination with NM in Khitai for example.

At the end of that they should have gear comparable to T1.5 with modern stats so they're fully ready to start Khitai hardmodes on all classes.

Example: if you kill Bibaculus in Crow's Nest without enraging him by killing the barrerls you would be rewarded.

Or the faster you kill a boss the more AA you earn etc.

Basicly, encourage playing the game, and players should be told in a friendly manner that they could improve instead of getting yelled at and kicked and ignored like what happens to some today.


At the end of the day you're rewarded for attending the raids, not your skill level. It would be much better if the game rewarded you for playing at a reasonable level and also spending more time in game/dungeons to further improve your skills.

[bogus]

Rewards compared to difficult levels are broken since khitai came before t3 was finished. After that came gole and msolo instances with rares. It's something that never will gets fixed. It's way too late for that.

I as you already pointed - encourage players to improve it's not working. No one or almost no one takes seriously NM runs. Because they want best loot now and are not interested in getting better.

There was days when HM was only source of rares. But then some qq'ers cry out their out and we got rares in solo instances, from golem and in NM.

So from one side we have ones who find game too hard but want best gear.
From other we have ones who want AoC challenging with lool quality bound to difficulty level.
FC tied to find balance and failed. That cannot be fixed anymore without revamping whole lvl 80 content. And even if somehow FC could find resources, a lot of current players would be not happy with changes because they would wake up in reality where they can't beat stupid t1 boss, not mentioning t2 or khitai instances.


So there is only one thing you can say to any player who want to enjoy this game - do not stop.
Do everything is needed to improve.
Change guilds when you can't achieve more with current one - no one says you have to break friendship with current guildies, you can stay friends but moving on at some point is needed for everyone who want to improve.
No one teach you how to play unless you learn it hard way yourself.

[Roargathor]

But what do you really want?

A decent server population.

[Arlandaes]

But what do you really want?

There used to be some progression needed - the time when you had to complete the Destiny quest chain to gain access to the Black Ring Citadel (Ring of the Asp), then kill Leviathus to be able to enter T3.

That, I think, should be reintroduced into the game... not only because it made sense into the storyline, but also because you need to complete / learn some basics before moving to higher tiers.

Aslo please put back the gemstone lock that used to be on Wing3 and that required one peep at least to have both eyes from wing 1 and 2.

[Bibik]

lol like thoses one-time restrictions pushed people to play better back in the past.

[Kurt2013]

Just reward players for playing the existing content properly.

It would be much better if players actually played the beginning dungeons and geared up for hardmodes in them in combination with NM in Khitai for example.

At the end of that they should have gear comparable to T1.5 with modern stats so they're fully ready to start Khitai hardmodes on all classes.

Example: if you kill Bibaculus in Crow's Nest without enraging him by killing the barrerls you would be rewarded.

Or the faster you kill a boss the more AA you earn etc.

Basicly, encourage playing the game, and players should be told in a friendly manner that they could improve instead of getting yelled at and kicked and ignored like what happens to some today.


At the end of the day you're rewarded for attending the raids, not your skill level. It would be much better if the game rewarded you for playing at a reasonable level and also spending more time in game/dungeons to further improve your skills.

This! For example one to two rare tokens per old world instance and a conversion rate for raid tokens into other stuff would do a lot good. Just take a look at the progression difference for different playstyles at 80 and the problem should be obvious. Though funcom offers many more routes nowadays than 2011, it still needs some progression balancing imo.

The basic misconception is that the game is all about hardmodes and raiding, both things that the majority might like (or is forced to like) and that is fine. But it is not the only target for players that can be considered "endgame". PvPing nowadays in top gear, being able to craft "endgame" stuff or having seen most of the world the game has to offer in many different ways can certainly considered "endgame" and serious gaming experience too.
Not even counting in those players, for whom repeating KK(hm, xp, gear), a handful of solo instances for hours per days or even doing the "latest and newest content and raid" is not a goal they aim for.
If it is fun for you, that is fine, but not everyone has the same goals and same ideas about "endgame" and how they want to play.

And if you want more people in your favoured content, there will always be some who simply don't like that content and those who would like, but if they have to go through what others did to get there, would be way to late. Giving things for free or nerfing too much is not the answer though, because it also robs those willing to experience part of the road to higher tiers of their experience (good example is here the gemstone lock arlandes mentioned or even the "saddurs key" issue). But what you can do is speed up things once they saw the instances/raids a few times and reduce the repeative grind (not necessary by more rewards, but by CONVERSION).
E.g. do not change the structure and mechanics of the initial experience, but reduce the time people have to redo the same content over and over.

[Azmith]

These days new level 80's start raiding the very instant they reach endgame, often not even doing a single dungeon before, raiding with shitty gear is socially acceptable.

The problem with T1+W1 in my opinion is that players spend several months (1-80+T1/2) not learning anything about the game. Many players simply gear up to T2 raid gear and are still pretty clueless as most players learn extremly little about the game.

The learning curve to get into hardmodes becomes much bigger than it really has to be.

Noone cares if you do extremly shitty dps, or if you can't tank as a soldier in T1/W1. Rogues can have as little as 6% hit rating in Full T2 gear, which is too little to guarantee you can remove abilities on hardmode bosses.

What the game need instead is some sort of progression that teaches the players the stuff they need to know past T2 in a better way, and also reward them with gear with usefull stats (critigation ammount, heal rating, hit rating etc,depending on class).

I'm pretty sure that a lot of players simply drop out of the game after T2 because the learning curve to get into hardmodes is too great, that could be tanking, low dps, or removing Burn Skin etc.

The players who only do the raids each week, also have very little content per week, NM Khitai dungeons are not that popular since you can earn like 12 tokens a day in solo dungeons, and few have time to do that many NM dungeons so solo dungeons are more rewarding.

My full t2 sin has no issues debuffing in K6 HM . I rarely, and I mean RARELY wiff anything.

[Azmith]

A decent server population.

LOL! Roargathor, you crack me up brother