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Thread: How do I get agro?

  1. #1

    Default How do I get agro?

    Quick summary before my question:

    I am a brand new 80 Guardian, and haven't tanked a whole lot (off-tanked one dungeon) - I am currently wielding a decent level 70 polearm and am feated to be a tank. I had defensive and uh the maneuver that gives 7% hate? Can't remember he name lol

    On an abortive attempt on Yak last night, I was one of 4 soldiers to gather the worm adds... and I am not sure how much of it was me sucking, and how much was DPS going crazy early, but the bottom line is we wiped several time before the raid leader rage quit.

    The question:

    Goad and the AoE one (4 targets iirc) only seem to work if I am about to land a combo, and it just seems so difficult for me to time those strikes while running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
    How does a guardian get agro when there's no time to do combo damage?

    Misscreantt - 80 Aquilonian Guardian of TRIBUNAL

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrynn View Post
    Quick summary before my question:

    I am a brand new 80 Guardian, and haven't tanked a whole lot (off-tanked one dungeon) - I am currently wielding a decent level 70 polearm and am feated to be a tank. I had defensive and uh the maneuver that gives 7% hate? Can't remember he name lol

    On an abortive attempt on Yak last night, I was one of 4 soldiers to gather the worm adds... and I am not sure how much of it was me sucking, and how much was DPS going crazy early, but the bottom line is we wiped several time before the raid leader rage quit.

    The question:

    Goad and the AoE one (4 targets iirc) only seem to work if I am about to land a combo, and it just seems so difficult for me to time those strikes while running around like a chicken with his head cut off.
    How does a guardian get agro when there's no time to do combo damage?

    Misscreantt - 80 Aquilonian Guardian of TRIBUNAL

    On the guard a fresh 80 just starting out will find that a sword and board is better for aggro and survivability than a pole tank.

    Pole tanking requires gear/aa's/some decent dps for it to hang with that of a Sword and board build/rotation etc. With this said, I can give some basic knowledge on what you should do for aggro.

    For one, 'goading" is what you were referring to earlier in your post. Goad is a bad thing to use for on a rotation basis. You should not ever use in order to keep aggro. It's use is for getting aggro from a tank/dps/healer who is almost dead etc. It puts you on top of the aggro table, but you have to quickly establish threat in order to keep it after a goad has been used. Plus, it makes the other soldiers aggro week after it has been used. So just spamming it in hopes of getting aggro and then not keeping aggro yourself is a quick way of killing dps, since other aggro has been wiped clean, and your on top and not keeping it, it will go strait to dps and they die. With that said!

    Number two thing, is cry of havoc, irritate, are your friends. A rotation to use is simple.

    Shield slam "cry of havoc", guard destroyer, over reach "irritate", over reach again, Shield slam, guard destroyer, repeat etc.

    Sounds simple, but their is alot more to it then what I said here. This is just a simple basic rotation, along with some practice you can get ahold of me in game and I will help as much as you want.

    Schou is my main, schoujr, crazyassin, are the toons I'm on the most. Hit me up!
    Guards: Schou/Schoujr, DT: Mycroch, Conq: Kenfast, Barb: Sonofcronus, Sin's: Crazyassin/Daggerdick, Hox: Scorchnburn, Demo: Touchofdeath, Tos: Enslaveu, BS: Meballs

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Default

    As said before, do not spamm Goad, it's an emergency tool, nothing else.

    Get rid of Goad mob, no one needs that.

    Go to the guardian sub forum and read the discussions there to get relevant/accurate information about tanking.
    From the same sub forum, get a decent tanking specc.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrynn View Post

    Goad and the AoE one (4 targets iirc) only seem to work if ......
    Please consult the wise one, Samaellzz, as he is master of all things goad.
    Baneric / Munok / Johnkruk / Tomjones / Elgranorgo

    US first kills - Arch Lector Zaal, Bat of Nerd Rage, Emperor, Cloud, and Entity.

  6. #6

    Default

    Not a whole lot of conversation on getting/keeping agro. At least not for a noob like me, there's more theory crafting on feats/AA's. Practice makes perf.. well, better =)

  7. #7

    Default

    Keep Goad and Goad Mob on cooldown. Spam Irritate and get Forced Engage as soon as possible, so you can spam it. You will never lose aggro!
    Kentegern - Conqueror
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    Thutkemi - Assassin

    "Grammar is the difference between knowing your **** and knowing you're ****."

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thutkemi View Post
    Keep Goad and Goad Mob on cooldown. Spam Irritate and get Forced Engage as soon as possible, so you can spam it. You will never lose aggro!
    on raids, and some 6-man fights, NEVER LOSE AGGRO is dangerous, enough to kill you, do careful and dont spam like crazy on certain fights, because when the need comes to let another tank keep the aggro so you can heal for example, it will be harder for him to take the aggro from you

    but practicing will make you better, and i recommend you do it lots of times with the same groups or the same people because in that way you learn more if you are loosing the aggro because of lack of exp/knowledge from the dpsers or your own fault; for example, if you ever lose aggro on the first seconds of any fight to a dps/healer class its their fault not yours because they should know the first few seconds are to put debuffs on targets and not fully dps him, full dps+aggro tools are tanks at start, the rest of the classes inflict dps gradually, getting higher the more they fight and not on the start of the fight

    P.S.: if you see someone spamming the raid chat with combat parsers, it is most likely he/she is in raid just to be 1st on dps, and if he/she steal aggro from you, dont even bother retrieving the aggro again, let that member die first then get the aggro (those players ruin a raid fight a lot and cause wipes, believe me, worms in yahkmar is the perfect example)

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrynn View Post
    Not a whole lot of conversation on getting/keeping agro.
    Not sure what you need that is not already detailed in the guardian sub forum.

    So, first, get a jugg specc, it is the easiest/safest one to start with, for instance :

    http://joharaoc.eu/feat?link=v12_114...51a5056580620c

    This specc is a bit of a turtle one, but it should do on under geared character.
    You can take all the points from improved defensive stance and one from stone skin to go get strike and guard and juggernaut instead, it's a matter of choice.

    You also should get 2 speccs, one for physical tanking with iron skin maxed, and one for magical tanking with stone skin maxed, you actually don't need both skins feated in the same specc.


    Your first duty as a new tank is to go practice on regular mobs your combos. For each one of your combos, you have to learn and remember on which side their finisher hits, and you have to play accordingly, until it becomes a reflex.

    Your hate combos will be shield slam and overreach. Use guard destroyer before your highest rank of overreach to benefit from the hate increase.

    When you engage the fight, just go apeshit on aggro, pop all your hate buffs then irritate+CoH, plus cunning deflective to benefit from the reflective damages.

    As soon as possible, get counterweight (1 point is enough) and master at arms from the AA tree, as well as empowered irritate.

    Take the habit to switch between your maneuvers, depending on the situations, if you have to turtle down or to go more aggressive.

    Never ever spam goad or forced engage, it only puts you on top of the aggro list, but if you can't sustain the right level of hate you'll lose the aggro in a matter of seconds.
    So, if you have to save a fellow tank or your healer, or a key member, then yes, pop goad, but followed by other aggro tools like irritate/CoH.

    Notice that forced engage do not generate permanent aggro, it's a tool between irritate and goad, it does bring you at the top of the aggro list, but after 2 seconds, you go back to your initial spot, modified by the threat you generated during those 2 seconds of course.
    While goad brings you at the top of the aggro list but you keep the amount of threat "earned", then you keep building on top of that.

    Never ever use goad or forced engage if the tank who got the aggro is at full health, pure waste, and it will only piss people off.

    Keep in mind that when you use goad on a mob, that mob gets a debuff, as long as that debuff is active, the mob cannot be goaded again. So if you use goad and 10 seconds later another tank has to goad to save someone, it will not be possible.
    So, use it wisely.


    Reminder : the threat you generate is directly linked to your damages output, the harder you hit the more you aggro. So, get hate gear and use accessories with lots of strength, hit rating, combat rating, crit rating. Get 14K hp and then focus on aggressive gear.

    Ah, and tank, do not "offtank", fight for the first spot on the aggro list, don't be shy, be aggressive.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by UnknownSoldier View Post
    on raids, and some 6-man fights, NEVER LOSE AGGRO is dangerous, enough to kill you, do careful and dont spam like crazy on certain fights, because when the need comes to let another tank keep the aggro so you can heal for example, it will be harder for him to take the aggro from you

    but practicing will make you better, and i recommend you do it lots of times with the same groups or the same people because in that way you learn more if you are loosing the aggro because of lack of exp/knowledge from the dpsers or your own fault; for example, if you ever lose aggro on the first seconds of any fight to a dps/healer class its their fault not yours because they should know the first few seconds are to put debuffs on targets and not fully dps him, full dps+aggro tools are tanks at start, the rest of the classes inflict dps gradually, getting higher the more they fight and not on the start of the fight

    P.S.: if you see someone spamming the raid chat with combat parsers, it is most likely he/she is in raid just to be 1st on dps, and if he/she steal aggro from you, dont even bother retrieving the aggro again, let that member die first then get the aggro (those players ruin a raid fight a lot and cause wipes, believe me, worms in yahkmar is the perfect example)
    It's like you've managed to distill all the wrong ways to play into a single post!

    Edit: Okay, to be a little more constructive...

    It's the above attitude that to me kills raids and 6mans. It's the attitude that everyone else must play to the ineptitude of the tank, and there is no responsibility on the tank to do their job.

    There are a few exceptions to pulling aggro in the first few seconds (sin bombs on magic vulnerable bosses), but for 99% of the content, open with both taunts and there's nothing a DPS can do to grab it of you.

    A tank's job is to get aggro. If you can't do that, you aren't doing your job, and you're like a healer that doesn't heal. A terrible healer shouldn't demand a tank get better gear to survive, nor should a terrible tank tell everyone to do half their job because they can't do their own.

    Fight for aggro aggressively. Remember that your health and mitigation mean nothing if you can't get aggro. There's no point having extremely high mitigation and 15000 hp if you are the last one standing because you can't generate aggro - you failed at your job, your priorities were all wrong. If need be, sacrifice your survivability so that you can get aggro and do your job you should be doing. For aggro, DAMAGE IS KING. Taunts help but for anything extended it is all about DPS. A well geared conq in a straight forward stand-and-trade fight should aim for 1k DPS or higher. A DT 1500 or higher. All these metrics that people post actually mean something, because success on those metrics is success in your job.

    In the end the biggest factor to success is the strength of your tanks. Tanks that bitch, whine and complain about DPS pulling urgently need to approach good tanks and start actively learning what they should be doing. It really is not complicated, and I would encourage anyone in just about any situation to just go balls-out DPS from the get go.
    Last edited by Boesch; 3rd May 2013 at 13:48.

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