Joel Bylos Interview 4/25/13

[nikepilas]

This mmo is actually my first mmo (have played close to 2 years now), and my first impression of pvp'ers is exactly as you said.

Now why the hell would I even bother to get into that part of the game? Sure I have tried a few times, but it's like bloody kindergarden being in pvp.

PvP is not just playing minis, duels or ganking. Every kind of competition that is not versus the environment program is indeed pvp. If you want your guild to be better at pve than other guild, then in fact you are doing pvp, because your competition is with other players, not with a machine.

Now bring that competition to its full possible development: pvp wars. And then you have again a thrilling game with no expiring date regardless that not further pve content is added.


.

[Bibik]

No. Almost no one go for recipe hunts since they have announced the crafting changes. And even before that, crafting was almost a time and money-sink providing items vastly inferior to raids ones (except T3 crafted before T4 weapons).

So the system needed a complete revamp, and i'm glad it's in the final step.

Some other AoC system are getting old and being revamped, starting with classes revamps, dungeons, crafting and now PvP. I hope they will continue like this with other system changes like debuff system (ruins/wracks/torments : system is good on the paper but a little weak on the post-RoTG reality) or guild renown.

[Roargathor]

Wise words indeed, ty for speaking the truth.

This mmo is actually my first mmo (have played close to 2 years now), and my first impression of pvp'ers is exactly as you said.

Now why the hell would I even bother to get into that part of the game? Sure I have tried a few times, but it's like bloody kindergarden being in pvp, and lately I have noticed an increase in pvp'ers trying to leech off the so called pve monkey's by trying to get in on t4 action just to get the gear (again to gain the advantage), and you know what? most doesn't seem very interested on the whole "reading thing" when it comes to raid tactics and "overrated stuff like that".
[/rant_ over]

Ps. yes I know a few nice guys who enjoy pvp, but they do seem to be an absolute minority.

Well, now if gear didn't matter in PvP, you wouldn't have to worry about those pesky, illiterate PvPers taking up precious spots in your raids now would you?

[Roargathor]

Reason i quit GW2 was lack of reward, seems this is gonna happen in AOC too.

It's very easy to tell who is a PvPer and who isn't. GW2 can't compare to AOC for several reasons. Gw2 has no guild rivalries. That's HUGE. If you were playing AOC on a PvP serve 3 years ago, you'd understand that.

Rewards.. To a true PvPer, the reward is getting that fatality on a sworn enemy, be it in an organized minigame, or in an open world skirmish/brawl. And seeing that enemy battle-keep burning to the ground. Seriously, after 1.05, the items (rewards) are just a means to an end. Something that players are feel forced to do in order to become competative. The problem is that this game doesn't need powerful gear to reward good players. The combat system is deep enough to reward those who take the time to leanr and master it. This cannot be said about Gw2 combat, which is far more shallow compared to AOC.

[Prima]

"Original pvp vision" was fail. That's why 1.05 happened. Bori (which is a pretty cool idea) also failed because of the exact same reason: a very very large percentage of so called "pvpers" are a bunch of pussies with no stomach for a fair fight and will go to any length to gain an advantage (and if there's no advantage to be gained they'll bitch endlessly about lack of it).

The ship has sailed, the parrot has ceased to be, they sent the dog to live in a farm and the fat lady sang. What exists now is a hardcore pve game (with some diehard fans) and trying to change the formula is risky so FC will probably not do that. They seem to be wanting to add a new layer on top for the (extremely low number of) MMO players who really want "skill based pvp", which isn't a bad idea, but we'll see how that turns out.

This saved me the trouble of typing it. Now I get to type other stuff.

I was in love with the "original vision" as well, and stayed with it long after the writing was on the wall. As late as 2010 I was creating PVP guilds with friends for the sole purpose of creating more world PVP or reviving sieging or etc., but bugs and imbalance and a PVP community that prides itself on self-destruction just cut everything down time and again.

I think anyone still hoping for the "original vision" now is in denial. Maybe the "original vision" got a lot of subs at first, and maybe the game lost many subs because it didn't pull off the original vision. But what subs exist now are virtually all people who like the current vision, and in that vision, PVP is a minigame, like City of Heroes.

If there was some way to put the nail in the coffin of this discussion, I wish Funcom would do it. It's nuts with all the stuff in that interview, stuff that most players are actually in the game for, that we have such gigantic threads debating a side feature.

[Roargathor]

This saved me the trouble of typing it. Now I get to type other stuff.

I was in love with the "original vision" as well, and stayed with it long after the writing was on the wall. As late as 2010 I was creating PVP guilds with friends for the sole purpose of creating more world PVP or reviving sieging or etc., but bugs and imbalance and a PVP community that prides itself on self-destruction just cut everything down time and again.

I think anyone still hoping for the "original vision" now is in denial. Maybe the "original vision" got a lot of subs at first, and maybe the game lost many subs because it didn't pull off the original vision. But what subs exist now are virtually all people who like the current vision, and in that vision, PVP is a minigame, like City of Heroes.

If there was some way to put the nail in the coffin of this discussion, I wish Funcom would do it. It's nuts with all the stuff in that interview, stuff that most players are actually in the game for, that we have such gigantic threads debating a side feature.

Yes, the ship has sailed, the original vision is gone. I do not delude myself that it will come back. I just think that any step in that direction is a good thing.
However, you bring up an interesting point that needs to be discussed. "But what subs exist now are virtually all people who like the current vision,", This is true to an extent. The question is, how much of the current population would leave/stop subbing, if the devs were to throw some more substantial bones to the PvPers? Another question is, is it worth it to FC to stay the current course, neglecting PvP, and spending the limited resources in hopes of satisfying the PvE crowd?

Think about this for a minute. The dev team has been reduced to a skeleton crew. The budget for new PvE content is small, and the updates will be even less frequent/substantial than they were last year. From a buisness perspective, what makes more sense, trying to keep the raiders/pve content consumers happy, (an proven impossible task given the current resource/talent budgets), or spending some time and money tweaking the PvP systems that if done right will ensure a nice bump in player count? They tried PvP before, failed, panicked then turned and listened to the PvEers. Now look where the game is. I don't mean to sound like a jerk, but you pve guys had your shot, you had entire expansion packs, that cost FC millions of dollars developed specifically for you. It wasn't enough then, and it never will be. PvPers never really had theirs. We don't ask for million dollar content patches. We just want stuff to fight over in the open world, and we don't want to grind boring pve content for months/years in order to stand a chance.

AOC is at another crossroads. Only this time they don't have the funds to blow on lots of new PvE content. The choice is a simple one. Look at the bright side. Tossing the PvPer's a bone won't cost nearly as much time or money as a new expansion with quest-lines and raid/dungeon encounters. It won't take away the PvE content that already exists, that apparently the "majority" of the current population enjoys doing over and over. What it WILL do is generate renewed interest in the game for vets who left due to previous neglect. It can bring back entire guilds who have left AOC for other MMO's that also failed to deliver on their PvP promises. It's a no brainier. At this point in time, PvP = profit, PvE = cost. Not saying FC will go this rout, we all know they have a "different" perspective on how to run a business, but here's to hoping they learned something from the past.

[Prima]

Sorry, man, I'm just not seeing it. It'd take more than a bone to make PVP-focused people happy, and unhappy PVPers are amazingly loud and negative, both in-game and on the forums. (I was sympathetic -- heck, I was loud -- 3-4 years ago, but now...?)

What I'd love is to see a standalone version of AoC relaunched as a PVP game -- just the key outdoor zones, with level-less progression (merge in TSW stuff: XP -> more tools, not more power), maybe guild-based rankings, fixed sieges... -- but it'd have to be as a fresh game, with fresh investment, a true relaunch. It's not going to happen in the current game. Can I read the future? No. I can accept the past. This game tried to do PVP with a huge team and investment. It didn't work out. Now it has a small team shared with two other games, its PVE game is very respectable, its sister game is PVE with PVP minis too ... the momentum for change is zip. The QQ on the forums and ranting PVPers in-game just make new players who'd love the game for the PVE think the sky is falling.

(Heck, I'd like to see AoC relaunched as a PVE game too. It deserves a fresh shot, it's really in a decent place, and nobody knows about it. Freshen up the textures, pull the perennially buggy content -- and PVP -- put in the new crafting system, add an achievement system, and launch it as AoC 2.0. Kickstarter nownownow.)

[Xanzyx]

I don't really know what to think about the skill-based PvP option. It depends on the features that come with it.

If it comes with a ranking system or some kind of bragging feature, then it could be fun for a long, long time. But there absolutely needs to be something in place that gives you that reason to play other than 'killing for fun syndrome'. It is fun but that's a given. The fact that it's fun is the reason it's played in the first place. Just add icing to the cake.

The word of mouth 'best of the best' is not going to cut it. A player ranking tab would be nice. An entire tree would be cool. General rankings, Top 10, Top 20, Best of the Best (Class, Archtype, Kills, Assists, etc.) Give people something to aim for. Let the leader boards do the talking.

Just throwing in free for all skill-based option will wear thin real fast. People will get bored. Even worse it's going to make the current PvP system obsolete. No one, absolutely no one will want to grind PvP levels and tokens when they don't have to.

Please add a Ranking System before you add skill-based option.

Better yet, add a Ranking System to the current system and then add the skill-based option. At least then the current system will still stand the test of time. And the unchained option will be for the word of mouth "Best of the Best".

[Roargathor]

Sorry, man, I'm just not seeing it. It'd take more than a bone to make PVP-focused people happy, and unhappy PVPers are amazingly loud and negative, both in-game and on the forums. (I was sympathetic -- heck, I was loud -- 3-4 years ago, but now...?)

What I'd love is to see a standalone version of AoC relaunched as a PVP game -- just the key outdoor zones, with level-less progression (merge in TSW stuff: XP -> more tools, not more power), maybe guild-based rankings, fixed sieges... -- but it'd have to be as a fresh game, with fresh investment, a true relaunch. It's not going to happen in the current game. Can I read the future? No. I can accept the past. This game tried to do PVP with a huge team and investment. It didn't work out. Now it has a small team shared with two other games, its PVE game is very respectable, its sister game is PVE with PVP minis too ... the momentum for change is zip. The QQ on the forums and ranting PVPers in-game just make new players who'd love the game for the PVE think the sky is falling.

(Heck, I'd like to see AoC relaunched as a PVE game too. It deserves a fresh shot, it's really in a decent place, and nobody knows about it. Freshen up the textures, pull the perennially buggy content -- and PVP -- put in the new crafting system, add an achievement system, and launch it as AoC 2.0. Kickstarter nownownow.)

Do re-launches ever work? PvE is fine. There's more than most players can complete. PvP just needs some love. The momentum for change is much better than it was last year. As long as FC keeps focused on the tasks at hand and not silly things like horse race tracks and freeze tag we should be in a better place eventually. Oh, and get rid of the snake monster mounts. Who's idea was that anyway?

[stiiixy]

Well, the recipe drops got nerfed to 'uMadbru, you wear rogue'. For example, Shadrizzar's chest in Cistern used to drop 1 in 15 or so for several alchemical recipes. Nowadays you can do him 200 times for a single recipe, not forgetting repeats. It's the same across the board for all recipes. It's ridiculous considering the worth of the item it makes. I would spend days sometimes (I was catching up with friends and I can drink a lot) in Kheshatta powerlevelling people and for my efforts, I got 3 L75 recipes for shitty items out-done by simple old-world dungeon drops.

The existing system was intentionally sabotaged for whatever reason FC had internally via nerf to stupid lengths. It, along with the rarity of blue node mats (and the rarity of the recipe drops for alchemy etc), drove the prices of crafted items sky high for very little tangible result.

Currently the system for rares in the higher end pieces requiring recipe drops (which are nerfed) doesn't reflect the market desire for T0 replacements in said crafted items (maybe to drive people to buy Khitai expansion? They still would I bet after cutting their teeth on group mechanics in raids). I'll happily mine my own rares, but you'll have to find someone to craft you some darksteel etc to make you an average item for raids when you can simply just BUY raid items these days.

On DW we did Wing 1 with 80's running around in 60 green ****. Crafting is massively unfairly weighted, and if we have an opportunity to revamp the Raid and PvP stat-system, NOW is the time to do it. Crafting is the core of any game and its economy and without an economy that is supported by 'the lost ones (addicted) or the hazed ones (stoners) who grind this **** out, most games just end up dry and have the hardcore like it is now.

Crafting revamp is required. There's a multitude of reasons there to fix it. It's an opportunity to restart afresh in a whole bunch of area's and I dont care if it takes over a year to do it so long as the community has some input in the end result such as removing some crafting fields like alchemy or architecture and making every thing obtainable by everyone al a Elder Scrolls, and done with a system like Anarchy Online (stick this and that in my thingy and see what comes out! *BOOM!*, ohhh, back on my resource gather wagon!).

*deep breath!*

*and release*