Bring Back Kills/Death stats!

[Geldour]

there is no kd because people get upset. full stop.

You can add flowers to it all you like.

[kalston]

Anyway, I did not notice any difference after k/d removal on Fury. Really.

And there aren't that many "mini leaving k/d whores" either (I mean people doing it on a REGULAR basis, leaving a mini occasionally cos you're getting emotional for whatever reason can happen to ANYONE).

[Binderato]

That's because they arm themselves with T4 weapons T3 Crafted/Ibis and accessories. With the sprint revamp, it's extremely easy to kill any cloth regardless of how well they can kite or gear they have. White hit staggers, charge, snares, AoE CC's, almost unlimited sprint, stealth attacks hitting for 3k, there really is no excuse why non-ranged class cannot kill a clothie who has maybe 15% mitigation before being debuffed.

Even if they are bad, the white hit staggers will slow you down long enough for them to get a CC, well geared guards in def stance are hitting for 4k with CW, a DP with enough VoM stacks hit can hit for even more, OLP with 3 CC stacks or more the same...CoS with ATG the same, almost every class can 2-3 shot a clothie from cooldown.

The current population knows this, which is why you see so very few demo's, necro's, and Hox. I can log in at any one time and most of the players in minis will be any of the 3 tanks, Sins, and Rangers.

You take away the high DPS weapons with the crit rating and crit damage, it will be interesting to see what those classes do without their Ibis or South Cleave...

I am not saying casters can't get kills, they can and do and dominate the kill board. However, with unbalanced matches, no heals, and no team support, which is most pug minis. Against 2-3 well- geared tanks you can't really do anything other than kite. Even if you can bomb, it takes more than one person to drop their health fast enough to make them even want to run.

This is why people chase clothies, and why people play tanks. Anyone who disagrees join a mini on set at anytime and count how many tanks, rangers, and sins you see. I can count on 1 hand how many necros I see regularly in minis, and the same for demos and Hox. There's a lot of risk in playing a cloth with 15% mitigation, there is no risk playing a Guard or DT who doesn't have to leave def stance, and even if they do they still have double the mitigation of my cloth armor but almost the same single target dps, if not better.

So the culture now is if they see the one clothie, 2-3 tanks or melee will all converge on them first and fight for the kill credit. Sometimes it makes sense, like if they are focusing me. Other times, it's just some PvP 2 Demo or HoX in blue gear who is going to barely be a factor. I see people (tanks and rangers) who focus this non factor guy all game instead of the real threats. So what if that threat is a PvP 10 guard, if he's the only one who is making a difference he should be focused. Instead, people know they won't get instant credit for kills doing that and continue to farm the non factors and lose the mini while only caring about their KD, which nobody can see.

While KD makes a difference, this to me is more about gear balance and the free T4 gear which turns all these KD players into muppets.

How did this turn into "my casting class is weak" argument?
Im sure if you ask a few advice from Anatu,Twinks,Byrus,Khramps and other old school pros on caster they can help ya out, because they've dominated minis on good or bad teams.

[Mathieulombardi]

^ Indeed, they just don't help their team at all, and kramps just shouts at people on bad teams.

Anyway, I did not notice any difference after k/d removal on Fury. Really.

And there aren't that many "mini leaving k/d whores" either (I mean people doing it on a REGULAR basis, leaving a mini occasionally cos you're getting emotional for whatever reason can happen to ANYONE).

There should be no real talk of kd stats until they revamp how minis are and how minis/stats work. We all welcome more pvp oriented stats. However the system itself is broken with strong biases it's just not worth the trouble of bringing that whole bag of kdr back, until major pvp issues are fixed.

[Anatu]

^ Indeed, they just don't help their team at all, and kramps just shouts at people on bad teams.



There should be no real talk of kd stats until they revamp how minis are and how minis/stats work. We all welcome more pvp oriented stats. However the system itself is broken with strong biases it's just not worth the trouble of bringing that whole bag of kdr back, until major pvp issues are fixed.

None of those players help your team? IDK if you witnessed this but a good caster can change the course of a game just like any good healer.

For instance I was on my DT the other day and we were getting farmed for the most part... one of the guys rage quit and out of no where we got Byrus's Necro. Needless to say we won that match and farmed the other team in Turn.

Not only did his DPS help the team but he also CCs at clutch moments and not just for himself. Also a caster can pull the melee to the point of "Overextending"

[Geldour]

blows my mind how people think that anyone plays different in minis becasue of kd. bad is still bad, flagbot is still flag bot, mini leaver still does it, kd farmer still does it.

Nothing is different with or without it. It was only removed to stop pvers from been sad, same reason as bk buffs where nerfed. Same reason as pvp in tortage was nerfed.

[Suctum]

How did this turn into "my casting class is weak" argument?
Im sure if you ask a few advice from Anatu,Twinks,Byrus,Khramps and other old school pros on caster they can help ya out, because they've dominated minis on good or bad teams.

I never said the class was weak. I said it's extremely difficult to do anything when focused by 2-3 people and you have no support or heals. As opposed to someone playing a tank who can run into 3-4 people, kill one, and be able to get away who runs very little risk vs someone who plays a class that dies in 2-3 hits. That's why minis are the way they are and stacked with Heavys. My argument is for the caster Archetype, which is pretty much at an all time low in mini games.

lol, and all those people you mentioned have tons of games where they got shut down, all your doing is putting out an Asylum pitch. Pug minis are Pug minis, you CANNNOT do well every game. It doesn't happen. And with newer players joining minis, doing well is getting increasingly difficult when your given 3-4 players who are PvP 1-3 in blue gear and T1. Many times, minus sins, I am the only cloth in mini games for several games. Like I said, you can pretty much count on one hand how many people play HoX, Necro, or Demo who mini on the regular.

What does it have to do with KD? Not a whole lot, but think how many people neglect certain classes because of their low survivability and how many people choose to main the rogue or tank archetype, it definitely shows people care about dying and flock to classes where you can get easier kills or live longer or both. Somethings wrong when you sign up for minis and it's 8/12 all tanks or 7/12 all rangers, and it continues that way for several hours.

Also, you know who I am and what level my demo is at. The insult was not needed and is against social guidelines

[Mathieulombardi]

OMG stop crying. Anyone is screwed when focused by 2-3. Set minis are usually stacked with casters and rangers, not heavies.

None of those players help your team? IDK if you witnessed this but a good caster can change the course of a game just like any good healer.

For instance I was on my DT the other day and we were getting farmed for the most part... one of the guys rage quit and out of no where we got Byrus's Necro. Needless to say we won that match and farmed the other team in Turn.

Not only did his DPS help the team but he also CCs at clutch moments and not just for himself. Also a caster can pull the melee to the point of "Overextending"

Sure you guys help, only your asylum guildies. When bryus was on his barb last week he spend his time going solo while complaining about how much t4 gear zarutobi had.

blows my mind how people think that anyone plays different in minis becasue of kd. bad is still bad, flagbot is still flag bot, mini leaver still does it, kd farmer still does it.

Nothing is different with or without it. It was only removed to stop pvers from been sad, same reason as bk buffs where nerfed. Same reason as pvp in tortage was nerfed.

It blows my mind how you think you know for sure when there's no adequate evidence for either side.

[bruceleroy]

It blows my mind how you think you know for sure when there's no adequate evidence for either side.

I have to agree with him. I saw no change in mini attitudes when it was removed. I guess, if I really think about it, it did actually help. Even though I am for returning stats, what I did see happen was less people farming to improve their k2d. And when they stopped farming, there were less high level pvp players for that split second than there may have been if it were left in. Now that the game is perfectly balanced, and minis are at an all time high, with level playing grounds for any pvp level to jump in and contribute, the game is ready to have them returned.

[Sarhal]

It blows my mind how you think you know for sure when there's no adequate evidence for either side.

You dont need an evidence for an obvious things :>

If u was doing pvp over time u would just see it, that after removing pvp things and dumping down pvp by adding bori, removing old sign-up, kdr and such, quality of pvp has been decreased.

Actually it was quite amusing to see when FC added new HC-PvP server and as major features were "removed", "disabled", "returned". No new content mainly but rolling back own things :>