Bring Back Kills/Death stats!

[Suctum]

What if you do want it but your class is bad at KDR? What do you get? The QQ about that alone was unending.

You don't need me to play devil's advocate, go search the old PVP boards for "ratio" or something, go back to KDR days, drink deeply of vintage tears. Ten page threads ranting about class balance and game mechanics, based on nothing but KDR. Maybe it's not "anything," but people are weird. KDR reminded me of that experiment where some creepy teacher told her kids that brown eyes were better, and the blue-eye kids were scarred for life.

I love stats. It's too bad we don't have more, especially in what is now a mini-driven (read: controlled) PVP game. I'd be happy even with something like SWTOR's minigame scoreboard: there were unique stats for a number of roles and achievements, and teams were even asked to vote for an MVP who would then get a bonus for just being, you know, MVP.

But one arbitrary, ambiguous stat, when there's nothing else to put it in perspective? Wait at least until the old forums go away before trying to gloss up that one.

You do know that over 50% of KDR pre 2.0 was because of bugs and molding right? The only reason you saw people switching classes left and right was because every few months they were messing with something...look at the Barb and Shaman back then compared to now, or even Guard.

I'm not saying people lacked skill, but some of the people who had insane KDR relied on the funcom bugs to do it. Molding being the biggest one...

And don't forget murderer farming, gem days, pug stomping, outnumbered kesh fights, siege only toons, ect...

There's a ton of factors that contributed to people's inflated KDR and the population's preception of these people back then. Some of thise same people who were considered good then came back as trash, so KDR doesn't mean anything as it's very easy to manipulate,

[kalston]

It's not a great stat and it's exploitable sure, but now we have NO stat visible at all which is bad. It's a flawed stat and you have to take it with a pinch of salt - but it still has some value. And who cares if someone has exploited his k/d? As long as auto balance doesn't take it into account^^

[Baasura]

It's not a great stat and it's exploitable sure, but now we have NO stat visible at all which is bad. It's a flawed stat and you have to take it with a pinch of salt - but it still has some value. And who cares if someone has exploited his k/d? As long as auto balance doesn't take it into account^^

Nobody care if someone exploited k/d, also personally i dont care about person k/d at all. I have seen some people that die over and over again trying to pick flag and because of that his team win.
But the thing with k/d is that it will encourage certain type of behaviour in certain type of players. For instance there is one pvp 10 hox on fury (i bet all of you know which one) that only focus on pimping his kill stats, he dont care about winning or loosing as long as he get some kills and dont die. If he sees that he will die he simply leave mini game. And he behave like that now when k/d stats are invisible.
I would rather see other stats like wins, support, heals or just kills.

[Mathieulombardi]

snip

I don't understand your point, which seems the only one was that you want to know which demo to focus in a mini by looking at their kills deaths first. And I didn't understand which of my three points you were replying it to.

[barbaricwildcat2]

Hence my point about support being considered in stats. k2d is a very small aspect of pvp in general thought. But it is what the game is about. The question is, would you rather have a heal bot or a team mate that can kill?

Think about it before you answer...

HEALBOT

healbot are good at gathering their team-mates

kd whores go to the pad and kill the poor necro or demo over and over again

[Geldour]

point is even though it may be meaningless to some, kd is like a trophy to some an some others like it to be shown and like to see what other peoples. some like it, some dont. some like 6mans and some dont, why dont we remove them?

pvp games with pvp stats. who would want that!

oh wait

world of tanks has a whole page of stats for each player
http://worldoftanks-sea.com/communit...00864-Geldour/

oh dam so does league the most played pvp game online
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/21641052

pretty sure that WoW, rift, dota etc are all the same. not aoc though, because somones feelings might get hurt.

[Mathieulombardi]

point is even though it may be meaningless to some, kd is like a trophy to some an some others like it to be shown and like to see what other peoples. some like it, some dont. some like 6mans and some dont, why dont we remove them?

pvp games with pvp stats. who would want that!

oh wait

world of tanks has a whole page of stats for each player
http://worldoftanks-sea.com/communit...00864-Geldour/

oh dam so does league the most played pvp game online
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/21641052

pretty sure that WoW, rift, dota etc are all the same. not aoc though, because somones feelings might get hurt.

We would all like to have many many stats. But it ain't going to happen.

[Grizzly]

I've removed a few posts that were drifting off topic, keep it on track. I understand that the conversation brings in a wider scope of discussion at times but comments are getting too far away from the topic.

[finnius1]

The question is not which stat is better or more relevant than an other.

The whole point is that any stat is better and more relevant than absolutely no stat at all.

Following that logic, the more stats the better, KD ratio being only one single stat among many others, that could be implemented in the game.

And frankly, KD back in time would not have been so important and would not have set people behavior on the matter if it has not been the only stat in game.

If you have many different stats, you have the choice to focus on what defines your play style the best. What matters for one player might be irrelevant for another.

This sums up how I'd like stats to appear to other players in AoC.

[Prima]

We would all like to have many many stats. But it ain't going to happen.

I am not totally pessimistic. If modders can make Guildstats work with a combat log parse, imagine what FC could do with back-end data collection. I bet a lot of the data for even deeper stats (phase 2?) is already recorded to some degree; I've been in games that implemented achievement systems and I suddenly got credit for boss kills from years before.

To be clear, I have no doubt that some corner of Europe is propped up with a stick I just kicked. But I highly doubt we're talking about something the scale of "fix sieges" or "retune 3.5" or "recreate all existing items so they work with the crafting system" here.

A full suite of stats would revive PVP for me and, I think, all the number geeks out there like me. To me, PVP right now is simply the game's worst and most irrelevant grind (second to crafting, until you account for PVP depending on the most, uh, vitriolic population subset in the game, at which point, yay crafting). A new minigame map? New PVP gear? Changes nothing. But even a per-mini scoreboard -- "biggest crit," "most damage done," "most DoT damage," "most damage mitigated" -- would change things. Add some revolving titles or something related to specific achievements... Interesting.

I think that that craving for data is exactly why KDR is bad. It's just enough to suck people in to planning their play around it, but not granular or accurate enough to satisfy. And it makes a strong implication about performance. "Biggest crit" doesn't say you're a good player, it's just one way to skin the cat. So it's just free-floating drama.