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Thread: Bring Back Kills/Death stats!

  1. #51

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    Kills yes. Deaths no. That stat, as we have learned kinda destroy team play. Remove it from personal tab aswell imo. Its a pointless stat, that some seems to have a pointless pissing contest over, regardless of the outcome of pvp matches. Even now without the stat, people care about their k/d. Its tragic really.

    But yes to flag scored, win/loss, left match equals loss etc.
    ClengisKhan

    Barbb, Serapha, Yatzi, Pallehysa, Bagpipe

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellaus View Post
    The question is not which stat is better or more relevant than an other.

    The whole point is that any stat is better and more relevant than absolutely no stat at all.

    Following that logic, the more stats the better, KD ratio being only one single stat among many others, that could be implemented in the game.

    And frankly, KD back in time would not have been so important and would not have set people behavior on the matter if it has not been the only stat in game.

    If you have many different stats, you have the choice to focus on what defines your play style the best. What matters for one player might be irrelevant for another.
    Smartest thing I've read this entire thread

    More Stats = Better

  3. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by di85ll View Post
    Please show me proof of all the thousands of people that did that.
    if you dont know about ppl doing that then you are new around here. its pretty common knowledge. Entire guilds would get naked and gank eachother over and over on the rez pads, its common knowledge to old school vets.

  4. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by di85ll View Post
    Please show me proof of all the thousands of people that did that.
    I could post here some 4 years old videos of Argonauts farming themselves on Khesh Oasis ress pad back on Aqui, but it would be deleted anyway..

  5. #55

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    The funny thing is most of the old PvP gear was pretty worthless. At the time if you had T2 PvE gear you were far better off. The only PvP peices worth wearing for a long time were Head, Chest, and Legs. For some classes, still true to this day.

    As to people farming, MANY did. However, gear was so nonfactor back then it did not help 90% of those that did.

    It was not until T3 was released did gear start becoming an issue, now gear is just stupid. The stats on some T4 gear are obnoxious. It's almost a joke when you consider what the PvP 10 weapons look like.
    Doomsayer 2008

  6. #56

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    About this topic, Funcom MUST absolutely add to the game some PvP goals, or PvP in Age of Conan will just completely die, even more.

    In current status every map is like an empty arena with no objectives, since no one is absolutely interested to win the game.
    In 9 minis out of 10 I just see people randomly go around totally ignoring minigame objectives (flags), and just try to kill / avoid to die.

    Few examples seen today:
    - one PvP 10 guard continually hitting a PvP 1 blue geared PoM from the 1st to the last minute of the minigame, for 3 minigames in a row (that poor guy ended 3 times in a row in opposite team to that guard), and totally ignoring flag or high DPSers (demo, ranger, sin).
    It was fun that at the end of every minigame, Guard and PoM had exactly the same amount of kills (guard) and deaths (pom). It was like Guard 10-0, PoM 0-10; Guard 12-0, PoM 0-12; Guard 9-0, PoM 0-9
    - one team winning 2-0. Then they realize their team is much better, so they start ignoring flag and just go in 6 to farm rezpad, while one sin just deliver alone 3 flags so they loose 2 - 3.
    - PvP 10 DT leaving game on 1k-0d cause he was almost dieing once, even on 0-0 score (of course he was not caring at all about flag when he left..).

    It's seriously depressing to go on like this.
    Funcom must explain if they plan or not to do something.
    If they don't plan to bring some motivation for people to win games (gear, AA, win/loss stats, whatever), then they should make it clear by totally remove flags and other goals from minigames, and bring k/d visible (0 effort) as only official goal.

    Lol at people who accuse players to be kill / death whores.
    I just see kill / deathwores in minigames, only and just killdeathwhores.
    Max 2 players per minigame cares about flag, and for those players it's crazy depressing to care about win the game.
    Not to say that it's almost unplayable for some classes.
    My main is BS, it's crazy depressing to play BS, most awesome support healer class, when no one cares a bit about flag.

    Currently minigames are a total, really unplayable mess (if not with the only goal to get frags).

    Please Funcom, do something.

    If no reply then yes, I changed my mind: bring back k/d visible and just all focus kill and not die.
    As me, I think many people is bored of actual nonsense minigame status.

    I already wrote in another post, but consider PvP in Age of Conan vs Guild Wars 2.
    The first has the most awesome Combat System, Classes, lore, fatalities, etc
    But the second has goals.. lot of objectives to achieve, Tournaments, World vs World etc..
    Even if the most basic element (Combat System) is way better in AoC, in the end PvP in Guild Wars 2 totally destroyes aoc.

    It's so sad to see Age of Conan combat system wasted like this..
    Please Funcom bring something to motivate people to play to win, to reach goals, more than just kill / avoid to die.
    Last edited by Calore; 24th April 2013 at 21:31.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  7. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calore View Post
    About this topic, Funcom MUST absolutely add to the game some PvP goals, or PvP in Age of Conan will just completely die, even more.

    In current status every map is like an empty arena with no objectives, since no one is absolutely interested to win the game.
    In 9 minis out of 10 I just see people randomly go around totally ignoring minigame objectives (flags), and just try to kill / avoid to die.

    Few examples seen today:
    - one PvP 10 guard continually hitting a PvP 1 blue geared PoM from the 1st to the last minute of the minigame, for 3 minigames in a row (that poor guy ended 3 times in a row in opposite team to that guard), and totally ignoring flag or high DPSers (demo, ranger, sin).
    It was fun that at the end of every minigame, Guard and PoM had exactly the same amount of kills (guard) and deaths (pom). It was like Guard 10-0, PoM 0-10; Guard 12-0, PoM 0-12; Guard 9-0, PoM 0-9
    - one team winning 2-0. Then they realize their team is much better, so they start ignoring flag and just go in 6 to farm rezpad, while one sin just deliver alone 3 flags so they loose 2 - 3.
    - PvP 10 DT leaving game on 1k-0d cause he was almost dieing once, even on 0-0 score (of course he was not caring at all about flag when he left..).

    It's seriously depressing to go on like this.
    Funcom must explain if they plan or not to do something.
    If they don't plan to bring some motivation for people to win games (gear, AA, win/loss stats, whatever), then they should make it clear by totally remove flags and other goals from minigames, and bring k/d visible (0 effort) as only official goal.

    Lol at people who accuse players to be kill / death whores.
    I just see kill / deathwores in minigames, only and just killdeathwhores.
    Max 2 players per minigame cares about flag, and for those players it's crazy depressing to care about win the game.
    Not to say that it's almost unplayable for some classes.
    My main is BS, it's crazy depressing to play BS, most awesome support healer class, when no one cares a bit about flag.

    Currently minigames are a total, really unplayable mess (if not with the only goal to get frags).

    Please Funcom, do something.

    If no reply then yes, I changed my mind: bring back k/d visible and just all focus kill and not die.
    As me, I think many people is bored of actual nonsense minigame status.

    I already wrote in another post, but consider PvP in Age of Conan vs Guild Wars 2.
    The first has the most awesome Combat System, Classes, lore, fatalities, etc
    But the second has goals.. lot of objectives to achieve, Tournaments, World vs World etc..
    Even if the most basic element (Combat System) is way better in AoC, in the end PvP in Guild Wars 2 totally destroyes aoc.

    It's so sad to see Age of Conan combat system wasted like this..
    Please Funcom bring something to motivate people to play to win, to reach goals, more than just kill / avoid to die.
    Yea the problem is our mini maps are treated more like First Person Shooters rather then MMO Mini Games. It's structured in such a way that the stronger players focus the weaker players simply to get a high kill count. Like if there were no K/D ratio at the end of each mini game, what fun would there really be in chasing after someone who presents no challenge the WHOLE mini? That's the real thing that keeps PVP down in Age of Conan, the fact that people care about how many kills they get per mini game. So newer players really have no way of learning how to PVP well in minis because they spend their entire time getting focused, so even when they do try and get into little fights here and there, people see them and stop what their doing to rush them. It's also not made any easier by the fact that if your new to PVP, you wont have the gear or AA's to survive such a strong onslaught for a long time. So you basically have to suck for over a month before you can get your 3 worthwhile major pieces (T2 chest, helm & legs).

    K/D = nothing more then a way for some people to flex their virtual muscles, as well as a way for them to publicly attack anyone they dislike in global on how poorly they perform. I can't really see any benefit to bringing it back. Back when K/D was able to be seen, people would make alternate accounts and spam kill an alt just because they didn't want people to think they were terrible. If you ask me, it's a system that intimidates some, and intimidation at this stage in the games life cycle = extremely bad for business. We already have an intimidating PVP system for new players who don't want to stick it out forever, why complicate things even more?

  8. #58

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    I understand where youre coming from but you pkay a demo in pvp, what do you care about the combo system.

    Those three examples are depressing but it doesnt relate to your request for objective (flag) based pvp. Most pvp is all about frags and kdr. Back in the old days when pvp was more balanced it was all about kills and the skull was largely ignored. NObody played anything but HV as well. And there was an abundance of open world pvp, none based on objective in your example.

  9. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathieulombardi View Post
    I understand where youre coming from but you pkay a demo in pvp, what do you care about the combo system.

    Those three examples are depressing but it doesnt relate to your request for objective (flag) based pvp. Most pvp is all about frags and kdr. Back in the old days when pvp was more balanced it was all about kills and the skull was largely ignored. NObody played anything but HV as well. And there was an abundance of open world pvp, none based on objective in your example.
    I don't understand how your sentence about combo system is related to the topic and my post, anyway I play both BS and Demo in PvP.

    In any case, I was not in this game "in the old days" you talk about, so I don't really miss them.
    I just find frustrating that minigames have goals (flags) which get to totally ignored.
    If you play for flags and win the game, you end most of the times beeing the only person in your group caring about that (if you are lucky you get a PvP 3-7 tank who care flag cause he needs gear and still has not given up teamplay).
    On the opposite side, if you get pissed and start just getting frags (which is quite easymode with demo, but on BS too if you just totally ignore people in your group and focus easy targets, like that guard in my example) people start calling you "killdeathwhore".
    If I have to choose, I prefer minigames with achievements, tournaments, etc, something more than just kill / not die.
    Something Guild Wars 2 like.

    Otherwise, in current status the only way to play PvP in AoC is totally ignore flag and get frags, cause anyway more than half of your group will not care a small bit if you are a good player who tries to win and help.

    My own conclusion.

    Things could be a lot better if people got rewarded for actually winning games, and for helping each other (like for example reducing total number of deaths of the team or other stuff like this).
    Rewards could be AA, new more powerful PvP armor for which is really worth to get tokens, achievements from an achievement system (for example special rewards when you win 10, 100, 1000 minigames), etc
    Last edited by Calore; 24th April 2013 at 22:50.
    Retired nab.. once it was Korando (PvP 10 BS), Andromaeda (PvP 10 Sin), Calore (PvP 10 Demo) and minions...

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathsader View Post
    Yea the problem is our mini maps are treated more like First Person Shooters rather then MMO Mini Games. It's structured in such a way that the stronger players focus the weaker players simply to get a high kill count. Like if there were no K/D ratio at the end of each mini game, what fun would there really be in chasing after someone who presents no challenge the WHOLE mini? That's the real thing that keeps PVP down in Age of Conan, the fact that people care about how many kills they get per mini game. So newer players really have no way of learning how to PVP well in minis because they spend their entire time getting focused, so even when they do try and get into little fights here and there, people see them and stop what their doing to rush them. It's also not made any easier by the fact that if your new to PVP, you wont have the gear or AA's to survive such a strong onslaught for a long time. So you basically have to suck for over a month before you can get your 3 worthwhile major pieces (T2 chest, helm & legs).

    K/D = nothing more then a way for some people to flex their virtual muscles, as well as a way for them to publicly attack anyone they dislike in global on how poorly they perform. I can't really see any benefit to bringing it back. Back when K/D was able to be seen, people would make alternate accounts and spam kill an alt just because they didn't want people to think they were terrible. If you ask me, it's a system that intimidates some, and intimidation at this stage in the games life cycle = extremely bad for business. We already have an intimidating PVP system for new players who don't want to stick it out forever, why complicate things even more?
    Some players focus the lowbies or easy kills and for the most part those that do are known to everyone else as terrible team players. You might see them top kills time to time, but most of the minis where you get more than one of them per side that side team loses the match...because they spend their time farming non factor people who inpact the game alive or dead the same way...not at all.

    I always focus the person who is the biggest threat to making the other team effective if possible. Who that is varies every mini and also depends on who on your team also realises that as well. The advanatge of AoC (or dissadvantage-population) is that you know almost every person who minis at what time so you know what to expect. I may see one healer who I know won't do a thing so best to ignore them, then I might see another who almost by themselves can swing a mini. Sometimes, you have to even focus the tank because depending on who it is they might be the only threat. This is what PvPer's do, or should do.

    Then you have your example, of people who play for themselves. Most of these people relied on some previous gimmick from a while back and now without it try to protect whatever is left of their K/D. Mostly, you see that with people who played Guards who miss old-school BV (most moved on to other classes), sometimes you see it with Sins (yes, Sin after revamp was even easier to play then now). You used to see this a lot with the flavor Rangers (most have quit as well).

    My point is it's not the majority of people in minis right now who farm out lowbies. You get some, but by far why minis are so bad is because you have a TON of people who just started playing AoC 3.0 or beyond...I.E. Mini Games are infested with newbies. People don't have a clue what to do because they simply don't know. You don't have enough of a veteran population left from pre 3.0 for people to get a clue, so new PvPers are watching slightly older PvPers and people are just doing foolish things just because of it.

    The way the oldschoolers learned was watching or getting beat by premades, seeing the focus of fire, the multiple chain of CC's, the knowledge of class vs. class...then finding the mistakes we made and adjusting for them.

    Now, if your just not up to a standard that's ok, if you grind enough gear and AA your gear can pull you through and as a player you can stay at exactly the same skill level of when you were getting stomped but go from 0-12 to 12-0. Ranger's are notorius for this as I can name more than a handful that keyboard turn, stand like statues for seconds at a time, but because of their gear can 2-3 shot people clothies and light armor.

    If anything, people dont really farm out lowbies. People farm clothies and lights because they are easy kills. The fact many lowbies are casters or healers is why it seems like lowbies are being farmed. In anycase, watching how most of the new player base plays bringing back KD would not mean anything to most people. Current population seems very content to trade their death for a kill and mini games tend to end up in huge 1 or 2v1 matches rather than a team effort. Not every game...but most. For me mini games have gone down in quality from just over a year ago and continue to degenerate into 6 1v1 matches the whole game. They bare really getting awful. Or maybe it's just the Oceanic population at night? Hard to tell.
    Last edited by Suctum; 24th April 2013 at 23:46.
    Doomsayer 2008

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