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Thread: PLEASE adjust Stall the Advance in PvP

  1. #221

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    I often do 4-5k total damage with CW critting (even on pvp 10 tanks when they are in frenzy) but that's not a burst at all, it's an extremely long combo and the hits don't even come out that fast. If you try to CC the guard rather than run away - like many do in pug minis - you have good chances of surviving (ofc anti CCs make it complicated sometimes). When you get a crit like that on a clothie with crap gear or that took some damage then yeah, you get an impressive fatality. But you know what? Barb's upheaval (for example) is virtually the same (except it is more reliable because the damage range is tighter) - long combo with big hits and "shocking" fatalities every now and then.

    Storm strike is much faster and crits much more often + reckoning does +50% or more damage compared to reckoning after CW. Now THAT'S a burst and it can easily be around 5-6k damage in a very short time frame - but you practically never get a fatality with that though.

    CW may seem OP but in the grand scheme of things it's absolutely nothing : guard without any class perks (no STA, no CW) is still in the top 4 of the most op classes. Now play guard without Storm Strike and it becomes a class with no burst and very limited killing power outside of lucky crit outbursts.
    This makes a little more sense. So then I pose the question, are we just asking to nerf the top 4 classes so the next 4 classes in line will be considered OP? Topics like this are really dependent on the guards skill and knowledge, and the person they are fighting IMO. Its not like I can roll a new guard to 80, and start criting with pvp 5 gear at 4-5k burst, right? These are geared out tanks fighting average players, right?

  2. #222

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    Shainah, long combo is relative though. My pvp6 guard with T2 pole hits more from CW crits than my barb does with some t4 blunt and parts from upheaval :/

    "Long combo" is relative:

    1: chance to fatality from 50% clothie = effectively instant damage
    2: danger of doing CW vs barb upheaval or sin SoTF is much lower since you can swap back to 50+% motivations during the combo

    Sins of the flesh on my sin clout t4 dagger crits 4.5k while t2 pole gives me 5*1k with huge final hit....

    Relatively, doing such a long combo is far less dangerous and has better gains than for the two melee rogues FFS ^^
    Funcom's Latency Detonation crits you for 4800 millisecond damage. Claret died.

  3. #223

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruceleroy View Post
    This makes a little more sense. So then I pose the question, are we just asking to nerf the top 4 classes so the next 4 classes in line will be considered OP? Topics like this are really dependent on the guards skill and knowledge, and the person they are fighting IMO. Its not like I can roll a new guard to 80, and start criting with pvp 5 gear at 4-5k burst, right? These are geared out tanks fighting average players, right?
    Posts like these are not about counterweight but about StA.

    Using StA requires no active skill...

    So...?
    Funcom's Latency Detonation crits you for 4800 millisecond damage. Claret died.

  4. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surgery View Post
    Shainah, long combo is relative though. My pvp6 guard with T2 pole hits more from CW crits than my barb does with some t4 blunt and parts from upheaval :/

    "Long combo" is relative:

    1: chance to fatality from 50% clothie = effectively instant damage
    2: danger of doing CW vs barb upheaval or sin SoTF is much lower since you can swap back to 50+% motivations during the combo

    Sins of the flesh on my sin clout t4 dagger crits 4.5k while t2 pole gives me 5*1k with huge final hit....

    Relatively, doing such a long combo is far less dangerous and has better gains than for the two melee rogues FFS ^^
    Of course it's a completely different story for rogues, just saying that CW is lame because guard is OP to start with. But CW doesn't define the guard class and isn't a real problem. STA IS an issue as well as soldiers in general with stances etc.

    On my barb with t2 axe upheaval does better damage than CW when both don't crit - CW crits harder and more often and you get reckoning after it anyway so it's not exactly the same but what this means is I often get fatalities at 50-60% (or more on badly geared people) with my barb. Playing upheaval 2h barb is like playing guard without SS/reckoning, without the survivability (unstoppable is very good though) but with style and uber speed
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  5. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by kalston View Post
    but with style
    1234567890
    Funcom's Latency Detonation crits you for 4800 millisecond damage. Claret died.

  6. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by Surgery View Post
    I posted an almost exact version of your post describing the problem and was met by PvE "are you trying to destroy guard in PvE" comments and L2P comments.

    The worste fact of the matter is any guard with a brain only activated it the instant they expect or see you approach to land a sin combo. I've had 6k off GC+SoulD and a white hit+ charge killed me.

    I have 8750hp in pvp. Agree 100% I even spammed test live with combat logs of retaliated one shots :/ they're not interested
    But m8 im pretty sure you some years back said that its easy to counter this with xbow ;>

  7. #227

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    No, I'm certain it wasn't him but spunqe or someone else from NW defending it (on behalf of Pomawka I guess ).
    Last edited by kalston; 14th January 2014 at 22:48.
    Expert Shield of the Risen opener.

  8. #228

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jin- View Post
    But m8 im pretty sure you some years back said that its easy to counter this with xbow ;>
    Nope. I refuse to use it on my guard as its worse than pre nerfed cunning deflection. I use counterweight, when I feel like going 29:0 with the flag on my back... Boring
    Funcom's Latency Detonation crits you for 4800 millisecond damage. Claret died.

  9. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by bruceleroy View Post
    This makes a little more sense. So then I pose the question, are we just asking to nerf the top 4 classes so the next 4 classes in line will be considered OP? Topics like this are really dependent on the guards skill and knowledge, and the person they are fighting IMO. Its not like I can roll a new guard to 80, and start criting with pvp 5 gear at 4-5k burst, right? These are geared out tanks fighting average players, right?
    The difference is when a guard is pushing a clothie your most likely trying to run away or get to your team which is why CW, while slow, is a good tool because of the amount of hits and range.

    A barb using Upheaval even the 2hand version against a clothie it's a totally different situation, because you can DPS the barb down and they might cancel the combo, run away, move to avoid your CC's, ect...while your not going to do the same with a guard because without team support it will take 3-4x longer to kill the guard.

    My Guard is only pvp 3 in store bought armor (because of so many t4 casters), and while I'm not topping kills, I hardly go negative. If I burst on clothie I can usually kill them within 2 combos, and usually disable with reckoning/BV is the better burst against clothies, CW works better when they are running away because the amount of hits most of the time force a stagger so you can get a SS in.

    But STA needs to be fixed. Usually, if I notice the ret damage, and it doesn't put me at extreme risk, I'll dagger hit the guard using it since white hits eat the charges, but you can't really do that outside pug minis. You normally can tell which flagbot runs STA though, it's not really common outside that realm. Everyone else uses CW and something else.
    Last edited by Suctum; 15th January 2014 at 11:58.
    Doomsayer 2008

  10. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suctum View Post
    The difference is when a guard is pushing a clothie your most likely trying to run away or get to your team which is why CW, while slow, is a good tool because of the amount of hits and range.

    A barb using Upheaval even the 2hand version against a clothie it's a totally different situation, because you can DPS the barb down and they might cancel the combo, run away, move to avoid your CC's, ect...while your not going to do the same with a guard because without team support it will take 3-4x longer to kill the guard.

    My Guard is only pvp 3 in store bought armor (because of so many t4 casters), and while I'm not topping kills, I hardly go negative. If I burst on clothie I can usually kill them within 2 combos, and usually disable with reckoning/BV is the better burst against clothies, CW works better when they are running away because the amount of hits most of the time force a stagger so you can get a SS in.

    But STA needs to be fixed. Usually, if I notice the ret damage, and it doesn't put me at extreme risk, I'll dagger hit the guard using it since white hits eat the charges, but you can't really do that outside pug minis. You normally can tell which flagbot runs STA though, it's not really common outside that realm. Everyone else uses CW and something else.
    mostly agree with you here, but there's a bit of a trick to hit it just as someone approaches so the buff isn't visible until you use it on them ^^
    Funcom's Latency Detonation crits you for 4800 millisecond damage. Claret died.

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