Hardcore Complaints?

[hensatri]

Let me start by saying that if this behavior does not describe you, then you are not the intended target.

I have bounced around a few MMOs in my day, and it is almost universally true that it is the hardcore that complain the most. I mean we all know about the newbie who rages on the forum cause this class tanked better than them and was one level below, or that their DPS pulled aggro when they felt it shouldn't. They wail about this class being broken or that class being OP, and we mostly ignore them.

What really gets me is the old school hardcore gamer who frothes at the mouth at the slightest hint that they game may become easier, more streamlined, or more casual.

I don't know if its a pride issue, that they worked harder for something than the next generation did, or if they have a seething resentment of handouts, or if they see any change as a fall from the grace of some imaginary ideal era that never actually existed.

Hey guys, you are basically the crotchety grampa of the MMO world.....knock it off.

Look, the gaming market is getting broader everyday. Your Target audiance is no longer the person who somehow finds the time to play 30 hours a week or more. Your Target audiance is the mom who only has a few hours while the kids are at practice, or the young executive who wants to bash orcs for an hour or two and then has to get in bed early, or the student with a social life who wants to relax on Sunday evening but doesn't play much the rest of the week. These people need a game that will give them a rewarding experiance in a 2-3 hour session, won't take them a year to reach level cap, and with dungeons that don't take a whole evening to orgainize and run, and then run 10 more times to figure out the strategy to actually win.

You....hardcore gamer.....person who isn't happy unless reaching level 80 is a new year's resolution, who isn't happy unless the raid is hair-pullingly difficult, you....you are not the Target audiance, you are now just one demographic amongst many.

I'm not saying you don't get content. I'm not saying your $14.99 doesn't count. But the game needs to be broad, with specific material to Target specific gamers. That is why a game can be casual so I can play, but also have a few outrageously hard areas so you can get your kicks too.

So why is it that you arent content to have a corner of the experiance just for you? Why is it that if the whole game isnt hardcore than it sucks, and its the wrong direction, and its a sell out? Let's not kid ourselves and pretend AOC isn't hard. Isn't it known for having some of the hardest dungeons in a mainstream mmo? If you look me in the eye and tell me there isn't a compelling challenge for you in the game, then I don't believe you. If that is true, then congrats, you beat the game.

I for one love seeing a game populated with casual players, I love seeing the eager new faces. I love a game that rewards me without requiring a surrogate marriage to it. So why not let casual players play casually, and enjoy the hardcore content that you can complete, which most of the rest of us cant, because, we aren't as dedicated as you?

If your enjoyment of a game is dependant on everyone else having a hard time of it, then I say you need to reexamine why you play.

#bear in mind, im not an AOC vet, but I know the end game raids are tough cause they even come up in raid discussion on other game forums as being an example of a "hard dungeon", and these observations of the hardcore, which hold true in every game community I've been a part of, are on fine display here.

[Khidem]

There does have to be a balance that is struck someway or another. I for one never want to be able to say game over I have all that I can get..... Never should that happen.

Either a game can continually churn out new more challenging content to keep this from happening or they make sure that they never make it to easy to achieve.

With the budget cuts of this game and its history in terms of content production the first option does not seem like it will happen.

[MisterClean]

I think that veteran players just want a difficulty that matches their in game exp and skill.

If the game becomes easy even for newcomers, vet' players will find it boring easy, absent any challenge, not worth paying for.

[TeamVernia]

Let me start by saying that if this behavior does not describe you, then you are not the intended target.

I have bounced around a few MMOs in my day, and it is almost universally true that it is the hardcore that complain the most. I mean we all know about the newbie who rages on the forum cause this class tanked better than them and was one level below, or that their DPS pulled aggro when they felt it shouldn't. They wail about this class being broken or that class being OP, and we mostly ignore them.

What really gets me is the old school hardcore gamer who frothes at the mouth at the slightest hint that they game may become easier, more streamlined, or more casual.

I don't know if its a pride issue, that they worked harder for something than the next generation did, or if they have a seething resentment of handouts, or if they see any change as a fall from the grace of some imaginary ideal era that never actually existed.

Hey guys, you are basically the crotchety grampa of the MMO world.....knock it off.

Look, the gaming market is getting broader everyday. Your Target audiance is no longer the person who somehow finds the time to play 30 hours a week or more. Your Target audiance is the mom who only has a few hours while the kids are at practice, or the young executive who wants to bash orcs for an hour or two and then has to get in bed early, or the student with a social life who wants to relax on Sunday evening but doesn't play much the rest of the week. These people need a game that will give them a rewarding experiance in a 2-3 hour session, won't take them a year to reach level cap, and with dungeons that don't take a whole evening to orgainize and run, and then run 10 more times to figure out the strategy to actually win.

You....hardcore gamer.....person who isn't happy unless reaching level 80 is a new year's resolution, who isn't happy unless the raid is hair-pullingly difficult, you....you are not the Target audiance, you are now just one demographic amongst many.

I'm not saying you don't get content. I'm not saying your $14.99 doesn't count. But the game needs to be broad, with specific material to Target specific gamers. That is why a game can be casual so I can play, but also have a few outrageously hard areas so you can get your kicks too.

So why is it that you arent content to have a corner of the experiance just for you? Why is it that if the whole game isnt hardcore than it sucks, and its the wrong direction, and its a sell out? Let's not kid ourselves and pretend AOC isn't hard. Isn't it known for having some of the hardest dungeons in a mainstream mmo? If you look me in the eye and tell me there isn't a compelling challenge for you in the game, then I don't believe you. If that is true, then congrats, you beat the game.

I for one love seeing a game populated with casual players, I love seeing the eager new faces. I love a game that rewards me without requiring a surrogate marriage to it. So why not let casual players play casually, and enjoy the hardcore content that you can complete, which most of the rest of us cant, because, we aren't as dedicated as you?

If your enjoyment of a game is dependant on everyone else having a hard time of it, then I say you need to reexamine why you play.

#bear in mind, im not an AOC vet, but I know the end game raids are tough cause they even come up in raid discussion on other game forums as being an example of a "hard dungeon", and these observations of the hardcore, which hold true in every game community I've been a part of, are on fine display here.

Well the hardcore are paying Funcom's bills right now, so I don't really understand why you are picking a fight. Most of the people who send noobs tells after reading questions in NPH are hardcore and play the end-game content. Sorry on behalf of the friendly hardcore, but relax, there is plenty for you to do 'til 80, and the game director is already cooking up plans to give noobs a reason to sub.

Vorbiz Edit: Removed a bit which could bring around a bit of a petty flame fest

[hensatri]

Understood to all of the above. I'm not particularly trying to pick a fight, but expressing that there is something seriously wrong with the mindset that other people having an easier time than you did retroactively ruins the fun you had, which is the feeling I get.

Now I agree, you should never "beat" an MMO, I'm not saying hardcore gamers shouldn't get their content, just like everyone else does. What I don't understand is the hardcore gamer who threatens a ragequit because leveling is faster for lowbies these days, or because grinding out an armor tier is now only difficult when it used to be a nightmare, or who cannot bear the thought of an easy tier being added to some dungeons, or that the grind for faction rep is less.

How does it ruin the fun of the hardcore if the overall game is easier and more welcoming, as long as there is still difficult content all along the way?

It this weird reverse version of the sour grapes parable.

And...again...if this doeant describ you, then its not directed at you. If you are content to dive into the hardest challenges, while not being bothered by the fact that I get 12 hours of double xp and easier quests, then awesome, that is rhe balance between casual and hardcore right there.

[ExuuN]

I agree with TG.

When I start playing an MMO I'm personally looking for immersive content that is graphically appealing, dynamic in it's storytelling, multifaceted and has a serious depth of lore (redundant due to my appeal for immersive content, but I digress), and lastly... challenging.


There are so many aspects of this game to learn, and develop in skill... which generates talk amongst a community of people who have never met and would never cross paths, who come together to discuss some AoC inner workings / raids that feel virtually impossible, and are eventually overcome. To emerge victorious over impossible odds with strangers, or people whom one has never met is an adventure in, and of itself. The people with the "it CAN be done" attitudes are the ones who are successful both in game, and in life... Vis-à-vis, the "hardcore" players.


There are plenty of games that allow for a quick fix; unfortunately for some, this is not one of those. However, given persistence and time, anyone can achieve a given goal. To give up before one has begun would be an exercise in futility.


In closing, I would just like to say that while any and every game has had speed bumps, this is, by far, the best game that I have played, bar none. I, and many like me, enjoy the challenges and content therein. There will always be another way to do a game; however, this one, in this time - regardless of hiccups, and whatnot - approaches the MMO genre like no other. Which is the sole reason that I believe it should not be streamlined. On the contrary, it should be given even more facets and tools for players to utilize, if anything.


Ex

[Prima]

"Hardcore" and "hard" are not synonymous. WoW proved that.

• "Hardcore" means you can play a lot and still continue to receive fresh rewards.
• "Hard" means that you MUST play a lot to receive any rewards (e.g., steep learning curve).

WoW succeeded commercially because it is hardcore without being hard. Getting a maximized character is easy. But keeping it maximized takes time because WoW has a stunning amount of constantly increasing content, dozens of tiers of gear between the PVE and PVP systems, meaningful professions, etc.

Age of Conan went in the other direction. It is a "hard" game, especially PVP. And at launch, it had little content and even fewer meaningful rewards (little raid gear, no PVP gear, etc.), so it had little to offer "hardcore" players (once you mastered your class, the game literally ended). Over time, Funcom reversed course and added a flood of gear and content to make it more "hardcore" (to the extent that they have resources, given the commercial handicap).

But that's left it with the same problem as every other MMO that clings to EverQuest's worst design flaw -- that all rewards must be power-ups -- which means the gap between hardcore/veteran characters and new players becomes game-killing. Blizzard overcomes this by constantly making content obsolete, but that required getting the formula right immediately, becoming a commercial success, and thus having resources to constantly generate new content.

Being short one time machine, AoC's other two options are:

• Shift to a horizontal progression model. In TSW, achievements reward you with more play OPTIONS, rather than raising your base power. Good thought, but the actual combat is a little stale, and TSW doesn't have the marketing hooks that WoW ("everybody's doing it!") and even Age of Conan ("fatalities! nudity!") have.
• Another option already sort of exists in Age of Conan already: Make some classes that are "hard" but can reach their maximum potential without gear, while having other classes that are "easy" to learn but require a "hardcore" player (i.e., significant investment in gear) to maximize. That gives players two paths to success. AoC had this more at launch, before gear blurred the lines between casters and combo classes, but perhaps "hard" versions of each class could be created: more clickies and involved combos that add up to the character hitting as hard as most classes do with raid/PVP gear. Or create a new tier of more difficult game content, then force characters to choose between difficult-to-learn spells or slowly-earned gear/feats to become strong enough to beat the content.

Either or both options allow new and old players to play less or more, challenged or relaxed, yet stay competitive with each other.

[Lurvi]

The things you mention here OP is pretty much what destroyed the game industry for alot of people.

We don't play games to be given everything on a silver platter! You're supposed to struggle. You're supposed to explore and find out of your own.

What are you even complaining about, you have normalmodes and hardmodes already nerfed to oblivion. There are TONS of oldschool instances for you to run through that are considered very easy. Yes, AAs are grindy, but incase you didn't know: GD already announced they will make it easier to get by as a newcomer!

You honestly think housewives and casuals be picking up AoC? A game that still after 4 years you need a heavy rig to run smoothly?

This is Age of Conan. Deal with it or get Diablo 3 or a console and play with some 12 year olds.

[magnum92]

It's all about being challanged, If Funcom would bring back the old difficulties of the Khitai-hardmodes, It would revive so much fun, im getting goosebumps by only thinking about it

[Azmith]

My major gripe is games being released with this "Everyone same team" and "Trophy for participation" mentality. If you lose, you should lose... not be given the illusion of win.

The industry may be holding the new demographic's hand, but that doesn't mean it's the right move. Call it elitest if you want, but I play online games and the like to be challenged, to push the strategic side of my brain in conjunction with the reflex end of it, NOT to be handed crap just for showing up. If we wanted to be given the easy road, we'd just stick to real life.

Nerf chess knights, OP.