A Civil Discussion on the PvP Update Differences Between Crom and Fury

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Originally Posted by AggroMagnet

Well im different than you.

Forced PvP cannot happen btw even on Fury, if someone does not want to PvP and he's getting ganked while questing he will most likely find a way to get past you, or log off.

Moreover, im not a fan of ganking questers and in general ppl that cannot fight back. Im a competition driven person, if someone is too easy to kill i dont bother. If someone is better than me and i cant kill him i dont ask friends to help me, i try to get better instead.

Whats wrong with finding opponents on ideal status? For me thats the essence of PvP, not killing some guy in Khitai blues with a group of PvP10s. Might be language barrier but it looks like you like ganking helpless people too much, and you dont even want to bother spending a bit more time preparing yourself before you do so.

I used to love open world PvP too, but after NPC guards and this ridiculous criminal system (i have been sent too many times to grind mobs for hours to get rid of my criminal status without willingly killing lowbies) i consider it dead. I cant even understand how there is still ppl who like it. And if you indeed like zergs so much and unballanced non competitive PvP why dont you roll on Rage, which is a thousand times better for that than Fury is.

To cut the long story short, i wholeheartedly agree with those who want 1 server with different instance rulesets.

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This is not about ganking questers. It does happen but questing is just a trigger. Like the quest in Kheshatta where in 2008. People first started to go to kheshatta to get level 80 not to fight then dominating that zone became a matter of prestige hence the fighting. With time PvP in Kheshatta just became a habit. But it started with PvE.
Same thing with Bori. You go dig there (PvE) and players who either want to do the same or just want to fight arrive afterwards creating a potential fighting spot. Please lets not argue about the flaws of Bori i'm just talking of mechanics here not about how they were flawed. And it's the same thing with khitai, you quest, get killed, so you groupe up to quest and get less kill. And when people start grouping up open-world becomes possible. I find it trivial to use the PvP 10s ganking lowbies as an argument. When it happens people yell, but it doesn't mean it's what happens most of the time. It's just louder.

I don't like having to wait for fair, balance fights to start fighting. Experrience tells me that there will always be QQ because you've got two more players, because you had more healers, because you're demos had T4 gear and not ours, etc. etc. fair fights on paper rarelly happens. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun fights. That's what great about open-world PvP. Even out gunned and out numbered and even out skilled you can eventually put up a hell of a fight.
I have an example in mind, where a groupe of lowbies did more than just stand up against a groupe of Night Watch just outside Shaulun a while ago. It started with a few lowbies on their way to a PvE instance ganking a few NW on their way to the same thing. On paper it wasn't fair, nevertheless the result was a challenging spontaneous fight.
More recently, 3/4 decent players vs 6/10 less experrienced players to say the least. Unballanced on paper. Yet was still fun and from the little chat i had with one of them both side enjoyed it.

Ah sure it's not competitive. You're not fighting for the belt for sure.
It's still fun, challenging and not spoilled by ego. And that's what I enjoy so much in open-world PvP. Fairness, balance, just forget it and fight. Use your brain, use the environement, and it's pretty tough to not be able to do something. Forget the "T" moment of the fight. You're fighting "ennemies" and your goal is to manage to fight efficiently as long as possible even while on the losing side to deny them the satisfaction of managing to kick you out of the zone. And you'll have your revenge on kills an other day, in an other zone, against that "ennemie" guild while their members will be doing something else. See the fight on long term. Lose a battle with honours one day, win it next time.

You guys don't see it but I do :)
The festival of blood is the start of the end for aoc 3 single servers

They are testing the water getting ready for 1 single server with optional pvp zones

Rage is dead and fury is almost dead ! the last round of free transfers hit fury hard!

If they ever enable Daily PvP questing system (open world in whatever zone) on crom then fury is finished

The day for 1 server AOC has come! aoc population is not big enough for 3 servers
The current population of aoc transfers around to this server back to that and so on..... whats the point??? might as well just put the remaining population all together on 1 server

Fury and crom are the same! apart from some rare open world pvp that happens on fury!
So just put the festival of blood on crom with daily pvp questing in separate zones! close fury close rage..... (at least these new crom zones will flag lowbies as free prey and have no guard hugging cowards

P.S My toons are on fury and I hate PVE I have at least 4 years paying subscription (F2P now tho ofc)

If you think that a mass of new players and guilds from crom are coming to fury for the festival of blood then your delusional (would be so nice but ain't gonna happen)

See you soon on the ONE server aoc :)

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Originally Posted by Lurvi

About 1 big server and instance selections. You're saying so yourself, while leveling up, you don't need massive numbers to have some fun fights
Open world wouldn't die out. (it's the way AoC was meant to be played, after all)

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I agree with you to some extend.
But i only arrived on Fury in November 2011. Before that i was on the French PvP server, in small guilds. And it was radically diffrent than Fury probably due to RP stigmas.
On that server most guilds had a rather strong identity. It transpired in PvP. It created a coherente diplomatique systeme. With guilds hating each other and proving it on the battelfield. You would bear the tag of one guild, if you killed a player from a guild that "hated" you, it would have consequences. Nevermind the zone you were in.
That was just plain awesome. A bigger guild refused for X reasons to fight your small guild on fair enough grounds and only zerged ? No probleme, you'll ruthelessly gank their questing players to retaliate. It would most of the time end up in a enjoyable fight.

That way fights where somehow included into a larger scale. And guilds had a reputations. That one was evil spineless gankers, that one was the moralizing zerging white night guild, that one the stubborn noobs that would never give up, etc. And when you have a reputation to withstand i believe players don't act the same. And depending on what your guild represents and plays, there where consequences.

I don't see how that could ever decently work with highly limited open-world zones. That kind of PvP might never come back i know. But in 4 years it's the first time there's a decent chance to revive it. Would suck to see it squandered without leaving it time to get tweaked and to hook people.

Time will tell, maybe once the events are rolled out guilds will start to show character.

A simple 1v1 gank may in the end turn out a guild on guild clash. Even with servers merged, there would be rivalries, Im sure.

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Originally Posted by Lurvi

Time will tell, maybe once the events are rolled out guilds will start to show character.

A simple 1v1 gank may in the end turn out a guild on guild clash. Even with servers merged, there would be rivalries, Im sure.

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I hope so much that this will happen :).

I'm really scared by the number of people left actively playing PvP.

To be honest, on Crom I can't imagine more then 10-20 players during the day, and max 100 at peak time, playing this new content.

I wish so much this game could have again a big population! More true PvP guilds with real rivalry and not just the flat random fights we have now in minigames.

After all it seems Funcom did a good job with this new content (according to forum posts, since I haven't been able to try it yet on Crom an on TL too).

Now Funcom brings an hotfix for Guards, and start some marketing to recruit new players!

Pls Pls Pls! :)

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Originally Posted by Chaman-bourru

That kind of PvP might never come back i know.

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I dont think it will. Dont get me wrong, i like every thing you listed, hence why i said i used to love open world PvP. Believe it or not Fury wasnt much different than what you described for the first couple of years.
We had guilds with identities too and plenty of reasons to "hate" each other. On top of that we had huge population and for a good amount of time we didnt even have NPC guards and broken criminal system either. Then 4-5-6 merges happened.

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Originally Posted by Chaman-bourru

You're fighting "ennemies" and your goal is to manage to fight efficiently as long as possible even while on the losing side to deny them the satisfaction of managing to kick you out of the zone.

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Sure, that when there were guild rivalries. Oh and also when it was 1.4. Now i just see random pixels that pull guards and lowbies that crouch to give member points. If i want to get frustrated i can always ask my boss to work overtime at the office without extra payment.

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Originally Posted by Chaman-bourru

Fairness, balance

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Didnt mention fairness at all, i used the word unballanced which i guess i should clarify. "Something that even remotely resembles of ballance".

Also, wtf is a T moment? :)

skipped first 9 pages after reading first 5 comments:

putting up "opinion" like : delete pve from fury becouse of *reason*
is the same as: Let's completly destroy the fun of players who like both sides of the game, hence the reason we played on fury for so long. everything could be enjoyed.

that being sayd, is it that horrible for people that they can "önly" have a full week of openworld pvp fun in ce? looking at myself i cant be arsed to do pvp whole day, all the time. People are getting the content, and having those openworld pvp quests 24/7 isnt pure golden. if openworld pvp happens u get a slightly better reward for it. and it drives people to a certein spot. if people wanted to do openworld pvp all they they couldve done that as long as i can remember.

just my two cent, good update so far. i hope to see more

I'm seeing some good stuff. Some highlights that I like:

1) Possibly one server or at least cross-server technology for PvP events.

2) Implementing dailies on Crom in all Border Kingdom zones (if possible).

3) I'm also open to allowing the dailies full time on Crom, but I can't help wondering if it will become dead like Bori was. It might be better to keep it the way it is like the world boss event where one week a month is more exciting. It's hard to tell without actually experimenting though.

What I don't like:

1) "Flag" for PvP. As a PvEr, I can see why this might look good on paper but it would be a disaster. The point of PvP servers is to accept open-world PvP and to always be in a state of caution when you're in PvP zones. Flagging for PvP would completely kill the atmosphere as the only people that would flag themselves for PvP would be those that are prepared.

2) Removing PvE from Fury. I just see this as a troll rebuttal with fallacious logic. Don't think I have to elaborate.

Keep the ideas coming.

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Originally Posted by -Nightshadow-

I'm seeing some good stuff. Some highlights that I like:

2) Removing PvE from Fury. I just see this as a troll rebuttal with fallacious logic. Don't think I have to elaborate.

Keep the ideas coming.

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You do understand this is being spammed as the opposite of no open world stuff anywhere on crom because [REASONS].It just highlights it's bad logic.Nobody makes that argument and means it unless pushed to the limit from the opposite stupidity being spammed ;).

Above of you poster skipped 9 pages because he took it for real,yet he makes a reply on a thread he did not actually read :D.This is going to proper lolfest thread with some good ideas in it.

IF funcom ever merged pvp and pve servers, I would hope that they would set up pve zone vs pvp enabled zones for all areas. And put in a pvp global chat button, so hopefully they can keep their obscenities and racial comments and derogatory remarks to and against other players out of global chat.

Yes, its a mature game. But there is a difference between maturity and racial plus obscenities. Just read the tos that you agree to every time Funcom puts in an update.