Wtf is wrong with the new forums? Found some really cool stuff in the last few days - including this thread.
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Wtf is wrong with the new forums? Found some really cool stuff in the last few days - including this thread.
OP is an outstanding resource for anyone, new or experienced, to Conquerors.
I have long been asked my rotation/build and it is remarkably similar to the OPs. Because I have been asked so many times, I've made a video of it which is available here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMUfXXeDT1g
It's the followup to my previous which used the same rotation but lesser gear that was up several months prior.
Here is the rotation in action from some time ago, holding aggro off Ryls who is doing >2000 DPS, with others around the 1800 mark and against multiple aggro resets (every Scorn).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGhSIrV_lo
If you are not weapon swapping you are not doing it optimally.
I was going to make this a new thread, but I don't think it's entirely worthy of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaoskult
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Sustained Rage vs Improved Throat Slash & Scourge
This is a brief analysis to compare the effectiveness, per point, in the above choices. There are some underlying assumptions to go through first before the math.
1. This is for top end gear. I'm currently wielding a Thrice Howled Edge of Frenzy, the Barb 2HE from Entity. The base DPS is 150.5.
2. It compares base, unbuffed DPS against a strawman, where the strawman similarly is not debuffed at all. In my understanding, the multiplicative nature of debuffs should favour neither option; instead whichever of the two performs the best against a target without debuffs should also function better against a heavily debuffed target. We've all seen very hefty retaliatory hits coming from GODS, but also we've seen white hits on raid mobs for 2k or higher.
3. I'm not including Throat Slash into the 'cost to acquire' the Improved Throat Slash & Scourge feats. It's a great ability in it's own right. If I did, the evaluation would further favour Sustained Rage (see below).
4. Pertinent stats are: Crit Chance 32.2%, Crit Bonus Damage 25.2%
Sustained Rage:
+3% weapon damage per point.
Increase without crits = 150.5 * 0.03 = 4.515
Expected Increase with crits = 4.515 + 4.515 * crit chance * (0.5 + crit bonus damage)
Therefore expected increase = 5.61 DPS per point.
Improved Throat Slash (3/3) and Scourge:
+50% crit damage on GODS procs, +10% crit chance on GODS procs.
Base proc with T4 Barb Sword: 131 slashing damage.
There needs to be 2 calculations - the expected damage with, and without, the feated benefits.
WITHOUT points in ITS & Scourge:
Expected damage = 131 + 131 * crit chance * (0.5 + crit bonus damage)
Therefore expeced damage = 162.72
WITH points in ITS & Scourge:
Expected damage = 131 + 131 * crit chance * (0.5 + crit bonus damage)
= 131 + 131 * 0.422 * 1.252
= 200.21
So the benefit per proc is (200.21 - 162.72) 37.5, which costs 4 points, or 9.37 per point.
Finally, there is the question of how many procs you get. There is an internal cooldown of 3 seconds, which is why the ability procs per the description of 20/minute. So passively proccing it generates 9.37 * 20 = 187.46 damage/minute or 3.12 DPS.
The question then becomes the amount of times you would need to be struck in order to raise the 3.12 to 5.61 (the Sustained Rage benefit @ 1 feat point each). The difference is 2.49 DPS.
Each time you are struck there is a 60% chance of proccing, giving the extra 9.37 damage per point, for an expected return of 5.625 per hit per point. The break even point therefore is 26.56 hits/minute (26.56 * 5.625 / 60 = 2.49, which is the difference in DPS between the two passively).
Conclusion:
26.56 hits is a lot more per minute than it may seem at first. A great deal of bosses only hit every 1.5 to 2 seconds, and this would barely break even if you were entirely soloing them (and thus the recipient to their every attack, none of which you evade or deflect or bubble through).
Sustained Rage is minimally better at acquiring aggro than the GODS buffs, and is approximately equal even when solo tanking a boss.
After all is said and done, you probably will notice very little difference between either options.
I don't put much faith in the internal cooldown of gods proccing on your damage being 3 seconds. Unless ACT completely screws up time keeping, my gods procs on a straw man way more frequently than every 3 seconds.
Also I'm not sure why you compare buffing gods procs to sustained rage as I have 4/5 sustained in my physical build and 5/5 in my magical build. A more relevant comparison would be gods buffs versus power feint, ruthless assault, or improved furious inspiration.
A few sample strawman parses I did a few days back:Quote:
Originally Posted by Erock25
1.
3:02, 82 GODS hits, 6x combos = 18.
82 - 18 = 64 self procs.
Therefore, one proc per 2.84 seconds.
2.
3:04, 87 GODS hits, 7x combos 21.
87 - 21 = 66 self procs
Therefore, one proc per 2.78 seconds.
It seems to be 20 procs per minute +/- one or two.
I did all of those two some time back. Roughly from memory 1% crit = 10 DPS, 1% crit damage = approx 2 to 4 DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erock25
I used to use Ruthless Assault in my build but the uptime is approximately 50%, leaving you with about 25 DPS for 5 points, so I eventually put that aside.
I dropped Ruthless Assault and pipcked up Power Feint, which required a slightly altered rotation but generated upwards of 50 (or more) DPS, or 10 DPS per point. The weakness of that feat is that all your substantial attacks are now center focussed (GODS, Bloodbath and Feint Attack). Playstyle, rotation and shielding become a significant factor.
Improved Furious Inspiration, as above, gives approximately 2 to 4 DPS per 1% crit damage rating. It's actually a pretty good feat if you are doing T4 and undergeared because the hit rating is gold. However as I am nearly entirely full T4 (just the chest/helm are 3.5) I have oodles of hit rating, enough even to be able to dump Pressing Strikes.
im suprised you prefer improved discipline over offhand precision
I really put no testing into that decision so you have a valid point. I could see off hand precision winning out if you have a poor main hand weapon. Carnage dps is so over powered that it bores me because I usually have to incorporate slight delays between my combo steps in order to not pull aggro off of successful t4 tanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantic0r3
This whole topic was created on NA forums right before the forum merge because I saw endless comments in nph channel asking for updated class guides. I haven't number crunched every little bit of data and mostly relied on in game results to arrive at my build decisions. I wasn't expecting a sticky and I encourage everyone reading this to come to their own conclusions. I do believe this is a good jumping off point for all those steam new players who are looking for their initial level 80 feat builds and combo rotations.
I think the weapon damage is better, though likewise I never really checked it before. On my highest parse the offhand damage was only 171 DPS which is almost negligible to the total amount. Increasing that offhand from 93% to 95% (1 feat point) would give 95/93 * 171 = 174 DPS, or 3 per point. The actual DPS of the whole parse is well over 2000 so I'm not going to be feating for 3 DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Erock25
I think the OP should be read and followed religiously by basically anyone that comes across it because it is absolute gold. If you follow the OP's advice you will pretty much never ever lose aggro to DPS except under the most extreme conditions (ie: those mobs that have negative magic resistances).
this tread is the best the forum have seen for very long time. great job guys. i agreed with ure statements and will just include some notes.
tanking, there is a extra benefit from dualwielding as much as possible, the FI proc, u got around 40% offhand without carnage feats, and thoes procs along with the more hits on combos in dualwield will proc ure stacks rapedly so u will allways have 10x stack when using abilitys.
cunning deflection. this is a tool that can benefit ure greatly or if used wrong not doing much. timing it with certain attacks can ingrease ure surv alot. that goes for pvp aswell.
DPS, a conc is atm in full dps spec the best solotarget dps class if u can keep hitting melee doing whole figth exept on bosses with un eaqle mitigation.
me solo parsing with t3 blunt yag blunt, some t4 heavy minor pieces and bb sin major items reaching 2k on strawman, this added team buffs. in raids makes a conc a dps monster but with the possibility to go def using cd and FD to acculy tank for a few hits, + a battleress. u shud always have a rouge with minus hate grp buff and cunning running.
along with being able to switch to mt for next figth, a true battle winning class.
This is probably a really stupid but I will ask anyway. I keep hearing people say they used to have to weapon swap? Now they dont? So if thats true, should I e using dual weild all of the time or 2h? I think I noticed in the rotations that they were dual wield skills.
So go dual weild or 2h or both?