UPDATED: How to PVE CONQ

Without Offhand Precision on average 8% of my damage is from offhand attacks at 86% offhand. With it at 96% 8% of my damage is still from offhand attacks. No change.

My spec is: http://goo.gl/bpv5M Full T4 minus rings and cloak.

Yes, I have spent countless hours testing multiple builds focused on specific feats and this is the purest dps build I have come up with. It does not always make sense just looking at it. Feel free to try it out and give me any feedback. I check the forums every six months or so. For those curious the build parses just short of 2k on a strawman and has hit 2400 in raids.

So, what the person was trying to say was it has diminishing returns, which is correct it does. at 86% I had 121 hits in a five minute parse. Then with 96% offhand I had 138 hits in a five minute parse. Over five minutes I do not believe 17 more hits with max being 784, median of 310, and min of 176 being worth five feat points. At 86% I had an offhand hit proc'd on average ever 2.5 (rounded off)seconds and with 96% it proc'd ever 2.2 seconds. This not a 10% increase by any means. Feel free to test it yourself. Again, given the tooltip says "X% chance of offhand strike." It is not a given that it will happen 10% of the time. I would still rather have 42.5% weapon damage that affects every attack, than 10% chance at an offhand strike.

Now, I have not run tests without Improved Discipline as of yet. Raw weapon % cannot be beat when it comes to feats so I have always taken it if I can. Might test this out one day though, maybe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boesch

Expected Increase with crits = 4.515 + 4.515 * crit chance * (0.5 + crit bonus damage)

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I don't think crit damage calculation works that way. While the last official info from the devs seems to say that crits do an additional +50% + crit_dmg_rating% damage, after a bit of testing you can see that there is no inherent +50% bonus, and that the bonus % from crit dmg rating only gets applied with a 0.84 modifier.
So the formula should look something like this:
4.515 * (1 + crit_chance * 0.84 * crit_bonus_dmg)
Sources:
https://cynarablog.wordpress.com/201...bat-mechanics/
https://cynarablog.wordpress.com/201...nction-of-dps/ (scoll down to Askii's comment)

Not quite sure how that would affect your conclusion, but I thought you'd be interested in the info anyway ;)

As for the builds:
I'm quite surprised to see that no one seems to be speccing Goad. True, it has a long cooldown, and you can't use it if another tank has used it in the last 30 seconds ... but still, In my experience it does save lives every now and then. And as an added bonus, if you die and get a res, you can jump right back into the aggro rotation.
What's the reason you all seem to shun it?

Aside from that: Thumbs up for everyone, especially OP. We need threads like this!

There definitely is an inherent 50% bonus damage to crit.

Two tests:

1. The "common sense" tests.

(a)
Go and take off your perks that increase your crit damage rating and wear gear that gives minimal. You still crit significantly harder than your white hit.

(b)
The formula provided as your alternative is obviously incorrect - if you apply it as written, your crits can deal LESS damage than your normal hits! if you have no crit damage bonus, it suggests you will deal only 84% of the damage of a non-crit :) Clearly this is not true.

2. The maths.

Really simple example straight from a parse on a strawman. I'm using GODS procs because they do not vary except for buffs/debuffs on yourself or the enemy. Non crit for GODS proc: 141. Crit for GODS proc: 252.

Expected crit? 141 * 1.78 (50% base and 28% crit damage bonus) = 250.98.

The formula works and has no crazy stuff like crits do less damage than non-crits.

As for goad: I keep it on every tank build I run. And for the exact reasons you suggested. I think some people have been told goad is 'bad' - and it certainly can be used badly - and there's a small distaste for it because it's a skilless choice to acquire aggro.

It absolutely has its uses and is a complete life saver

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jauertussen

me solo parsing with t3 blunt yag blunt, some t4 heavy minor pieces and bb sin major items reaching 2k on strawman,.

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Is the Children of Yag-kosha Scepter of Return [1HB] times 2 preferred over the Blossoming Death [1HB] times 2 from Yellow Priests of Yun?

Due to Critical damage bonus?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keebler2

Is the Children of Yag-kosha Scepter of Return [1HB] times 2 preferred over the Blossoming Death [1HB] times 2 from Yellow Priests of Yun?

Due to Critical damage bonus?

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Scepter of Return is better for DPS because it doesn't have hate increase. If tanking with carnage, maybe two Yun blunts would be interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Thutkemi

Scepter of Return is better for DPS because it doesn't have hate increase. If tanking with carnage, maybe two Yun blunts would be interesting.

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Considering the ludicrous DPS of carnage I can't possibly imagine a need for more aggro on a carnage tank. It's just madness.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boesch

Considering the ludicrous DPS of carnage I can't possibly imagine a need for more aggro on a carnage tank. It's just madness.

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hmm...

Just cuz?

Pretty good reason right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Boesch

Considering the ludicrous DPS of carnage I can't possibly imagine a need for more aggro on a carnage tank. It's just madness.

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Of course we're all about the madness around here :D

It's theory (which is why I said "interesting"), anyway, as I'd never grind out two of those damn things just to test carnage tanking. Especially since I play 90% of my time as brute.

Well, I concede 'just cuz' and madness are two good arguments :) (no, srsly)

I've carnage tanked Sheng and Basilisk a few times for shits and giggles. The damage is very high, and combined with your tanking technique the aggro is 'madness' :) Unfortunately you'll need to trade even more frequently than Brute so after a certain point in aggro I don't think it's worth the time. Brute can hold 2k+ DPS rather comfortably, and perpetually, so I always just end up opting back into it.

I am somewhat interested in seeing what a carnage tank in fearless major pieces, courageous minors (except for the fearless hands) would be able to do. It'd be a lot of mitigation to make up for what survivability Brute affords.