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Minis are bad now. Grouping isn't the answer, but I do get your point on how it would help. The problem is you are not the average pvper. And if you add your buddy, that's impossible to beat with a pug, that's my concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by -Syd-
The answer, balance after all members are there. Kick players not moving for 15 seconds if someone is in queue. Etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcorp
easily avoidable.. just move every few minutes.. derp
I don't agree on all points but everyone is entitled to their viewsQuote:
There have been fair arguments for the two sides as I see it, those who support pug minis and those who support grouping. I’ll go right out and say I support grouping and feel that pugs should be removed. Here’s why. No one has talked about player skill. A skilled player by definition responds to the environment in the most advantageous way possible. Knowing when to heal, when to CC, when to focus, when to kite; simple player mechanics. This environment can be 1v1, 6v6, or any structure. The skilled player adapts to the environment using their resources to overcome their opponents. One resource is other players. A skilled player understands their role in conjunction with their teammates mechanics. Another resource is communication. Unfortunately, in AOC, communication is limited to text since there is no built in voice chat. My guild uses Ventrilo, and when pugs group us together we are at an advantage because we can communicate. A troll will say this is using third-party software to exploit, which is ******** with some truth to it. Just the communication factor should advantage premade groups over pugs.
Another factor is the class makeup of the group. A premade has a natural advantage because the makeup is not random, but selected. Most guilds in my experience would only premade against Carnage when their ideal premade was online, which is understandable when grouping is taken to the ultimate competitive level. Time spent playing together is another resource skilled players use to their advantage, and is another factor that imbalances a premade versus a pug. Again, the troll would say guildies should never be in the same pug because they are at an advantage. The only way to satisfy the troll, and some of you, is to have everyone be guildless, friendless, and always solo. Unfortunately, this is the current state of AOC. It is catering to the single player, allowing them to reach pvp10 with no concept of group play. Everyone has an “equal opportunity” to achieve the endgame grind: pvp10. The community has let the reward of play dictate the state of gameplay.
The current community is vastly different than the playerbase of earlier years and launch. When I first played, guilds would prevent you from leveling and would completely lockdown entire zones, multiple instances even, to prevent their competition from leveling. A solo player would be decimated, and pugs formed just to hold grind areas to farm pve and protect from pvp, so naturally friendships were made and guilds were made. Guilds had kill on-site lists, siege alliances, and non-aggression pacts. For example, Carnage did not grief one guild in exchange for our small team of pvpers that could not form a 24 man raid to join their pve raids. For the majority of players, the endgame content was joining a guild and guess what, grouping with guildies.
Pug minis need to be removed completely. If you’re a solo player and now you can’t compete, make a friend, and group with them. Join a guild, and group with them. You should have friends, you should have guildies, in a game designed for grouping. Did you really grind to 80 solo? Really? I feel sorry for you. And if you’re a guild, compete with other guilds.
Now there are two last things I want to address. The first is tokens. They’ve destroyed minigames. Suddenly players want to play minigames because it became the easiest way to grind for competitive gear (gear destroyed this game imo but that’s another topic). At one time, a mix of pve gear and pvp gear was the best for pvp, so guess what, pvp players participated in pve content because they were forced to, to be competitive. The only players who participated in minigames did so because it was fun for them; casual play, competitive play, whatever. It was one small aspect of the game. Some guilds used minigames to prove their superiority over other guilds, some guilds used sieges, other pve accomplishments. The playerbase was split according to preference. Then tokens were introduced and all players wanted to earn them so all players became forced (again) to participate in content (this time minigames) for the gear grind in order to be competitive in pvp. Guess what, if you don’t like minigames, don’t play them. If you play them, adapt or quit, form premades, join guilds, compete. Don’t break mechanics of teamplay to make your grind easier.
For the last point that many of you repeat. One guild dominating minigames to the point that no one signs up. First, no one earns tokens. Players must find other ways to earn gear to be competitive. If no one likes to compete then go play content that caters to your playstyle. Don’t ruin the content for players who do enjoy it, because what no one is admitting is that some players will compete. Yes, everyone won’t be able to grind tokens, but some players will. Is one guild in the current population able to dominate minigames at all hours? I doubt it. Can one guild dominate during primetime? Yes, so compete with them or play when those teams log off. Wait, you mean you cannot earn you token whenever you want? Yes, that is what I am saying. It should be earned. Pvp levels should be an indicator of what was earned not what was rewarded.
AOC is the game for the carebear. I last quit in 2010 and after a few days, I’ll quit again because the community has ruined the best game I’ve ever played.
Ispy, Carnage, Deathwhisper ‘08
want to do solo pvp? go duel someone or gank some people in world pvp
want to do a t3 raid? go get a raid group
want to do a mini game? GET A FEW MATES IN A GROUP AND SIGN UP
that is how it should be.
I cant solo raid pve content so why in the hell an i forced to have to solo pvp content.
AND FOR THE 50TH TIME WE ARE NOT ASKING FOR FULL 6MAN GROUPS TO BE ABLE TO SIGN, WE ARE WANTING TO BE ABLE TO SIGN WITH 1 OR 2 MATES.
You say aww its not fair blah blah, WELL I DO NOT THINK ITS FAIR THAT IM STUCK HAVING TO CARRY 5 PVERS EVERY MINI.
They should make raids/6mans pug only, lets see how you pvers feel when your tank spots get filled by afkers in green gear for t4
They would all come on to the forums and rage. They would cry about how it's not fair that they're forced to play with pugs and that they should be allowed to group with their friends, not a courtesy they would ever extend for us, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeldourConq
the moderators were the players getting crushed my carnage so they all decided to show funcom selective threads or even created their own about what the game needs. thus this game has turned from skillfull and possibly the best mmo that would change and shade the mmo industry to a skill cap that has been averaged out for the ppl that arent good (GEAR.....and AAs...). those two factors literally need to go. but anyway. now we have pug mini games becuz of that.
theres no risk/reward system in aoc anymore. i remember i used to 1 shot players on my shaman when i got all my dmg buffs up. now those dmg buffs mean nothing really and everyone has to debuff a target to see any dmg...the dmg buffs in this game make no sense. you can say how is that skillfull waiting on cds before showing your self but try having that mentality in a mini and see how far you get. i remember going in a grp of ppl killing 2 or 3 noobs and getting out alive with the help of my team mates CCing the ppl trying to kill me, that was the best risk/reward system. now classes take like 20+ seconds to kill a target with the way gear works and how much hp everyone.
like just look at how they even hid the KDR from being viewed, for what so that players can feel good becuz they have noone telling them theyr bad with 3000 kills and 10k deaths on a ranger. another of funcom's perk to care for bad players (prolly suggested by the mods getting bashed by carnage too).
pugs need to go, that whole system needs to get deleted from the codes. put it bak to what it used to be. ppl will start grping up. if they cant grp for minis cuz one guild has the minis on lockdown, then theyll actually go to the daily pvp zones and pvp there and even grp up against that one guild owning the minis. theres another prob, noone is in those daily pvp zone its so sad. everyons doing that useless world boss. why is that even in the game. its a neat little scam though. it might get some ppl to pay to go in the zones that the boss will be in, but it also kills minis and world pvp...
literally all funcom had to do was nerf tos storm crown 1 shot then buff dts and just AFKed the game. they woulda racked up so much money with that 1.04 patch. the game was the best at that point. us competitive players can go on and on about whats wrong with the game and what it needs but in the end nothing is gonna happen. the masses will always win, and the masses represent the average skill in video games. so if theyr not happy cuz theyr getting annihilated than the game is gonna have to change for them (gear, AAs, nerfs to certain "exploits" like combo canceling and combo molding which actually added skill to the game).
combo canceling; if you couldnt do it and was getting destroyed by someone else doing it than learn how its done and use it and get better at the game. funcom should have never messed it it, they shuolda embraced it and made it part of the game and show players how to do it so that they got better at the game. but again masses win and if the masses cant combo cancel cuz theyr they refuse to play better or theyr playing with missing fingers or a limb than skillful aspects to a game have to be thrown out the window.
this pvp update in that news letter sounds good, the pvp festivals are really good but need to be WAY more often. well see what funcom does with their balance patch. hopefully its gonna be really good and fix a lot of the classes that are just broken as ever.
I disagree with this.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptocide
Do you think only you is not happy with what happens in mini sometimes?Quote:
Originally Posted by GeldourConq
Do you think I'm happy when for example 5 people on my group keep hitting a conq while I'm left alone on Bear Shaman (!) jumping on necros or rangers and getting overnumbered cause my team is not even able to understand what is happening around or watch a map, and push together / focus correct target / finish the ranger running away with 5% health.. ?
Yes, minigames are this trash most of the time.
But it's take or leave.
You should all stop with beautiful sentences about skill and competition and face the truth: it's a game, nearly dead, with next to no population left. 90% of players will never get better in PvP, but they are needed if we want to play something, you can't cut them out.
I hope aswell to see premades going, improve in teamplay etc.
I have no problem to admit that I'm a carebear who leveled to PvP 10 only by random minis.
No offence, it's the truth.
I want to improve, I want teamplay and I hate trash mini like you.
But you would kill the game by removing random minigame queque. Period.
What Anatu suggested is what we need imo, and that's the same I posted before on this thread aswell.
Buddy sysrem + revamped Tourny Mode.
But now pls reply to this question: how many times have you played this game during last few months?
I'm probably worst player than you or that Carnage guy before, I could never progress with the crap yhat happens in random minigames.
But I play game for 1-2 h nearly every day, and I still want a game too play.
So easy to come and talk about skill, progression, challenge, cooperation etc when you have left 2 years ago and about a game you don't play..
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=188601Quote:
Originally Posted by Korando-AoC
if you read my thread you will see the idea i have put forward.
it allows pug minis lvl 0-4. and groups of 1-3 in pvp 5-10.
dont want to fight vs people that are in a group of 3? get on a pvp 0-4 and do your pugs.
This would fix minis. Im sure you can come up with 6000 reasons why it wont work but i can tell you now, if nothing changes then how can things ever get better.
Yes I have read your thread.
That's a nice idea aswell, but I would change it a bit: PvP 0-6 and PvP 7-10.
PvP 7-10 queque joinable as solo or group, up to 6 players (so a full premade).
That could work and be fun.. Risky for game population aswell but fun.
Or PvP 7-10 joinable by groups up to 3 players, but keep Tourny Mode.
Anyway yeah, I like your idea.