About Russian Translations

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nusquam

As for the Russian translation, yeah I hate removing it, but it wasn't my call. Keep in mind it's not like the game will suddenly change to English, everything already translated will remain translated. So it refers only to future content.

---

Are there no Russians willing to translate content in exchange for free game time - for example? No offense, but it's not like Funcom is rolling out patches like pizzas on Prom night. Besides, I can get quality Russian translations for less than $10 a page - and in some cases much less than that - like $0.015 per word (which is either about $2.50 or $5.00 per page - depending on how you look at it.

Besides Nusquam ;) How will AOC ever get it's own meme if we don't allow for the possibility of second rate translations?

Something like this would breathe new life into the game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_you...e_belong_to_us

:D :D :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RunningWolf

I can get quality Russian translations for less than $10 a page - and in some cases much less than that - like $0.015 per word (which is either about $2.50 or $5.00 per page - depending on how you look at it.

---

I doubt about "high-quality translations" if one mentions that price. The minimum quotation at the translation market is $0.05 per word (it goes up to $0.20 per word in CIS), and lowering it is usually more than frowned upon even if we speak about third-world markets. I have seen people going as low as 0 per word only to "establish themselves on the market", which was more of a disservice rather than something exemplary.
There is also Google Translate that goes as cheap as $0.00 per word ($0 per page).
Funcom dropped the translation as it dropped the European servers, and they will not have the resources to afford it in the future.

@ Funcom
Use. The. Community.

Community translations wouldn't lower quality in my opinion.

I don't know about the quality of translations to Russian, but at least those to German were just... funny. I don't know about the current state, because I switched to the English language client several years ago, but at least in the past... omg. Google translations wouldn't have made less sense.

My favorite example: The soldier ability "Charge" was translated to German in the sense of "charging a battery" ("laden"). So, Soldiers had a button to... recharge batteries!? One needed to translate that back into English to understand wtf the translater even meant by that. Players, I suppose, can do that better.

One of the most important jobs - forum moderation - is done by volunteers. That job is done, in my opinion, with, uhm, well, probably I'll get a ban again for continueing that sentence. But what I want to say: If you let the forum, which is one of the most important advertisement tools for MMOs, be managed by volunteers, then don't be afraid to let volunteers lend a hand with some translations.

And if American: Knowing foreign languages seem to some kind of magical ability for some 'Murricans, only to be done by professionals with some super special secret knowledge of... omg, he knows how to speak French! If falling for that fallacy: No, it's not. Translating language on a MMO level of complexity is not a feat of wonder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunaticAsylumLA

I doubt about "high-quality translations" if one mentions that price. The minimum quotation at the translation market is $0.05 per word (it goes up to $0.20 per word in CIS), and lowering it is usually more than frowned upon even if we speak about third-world markets. I have seen people going as low as 0 per word only to "establish themselves on the market", which was more of a disservice rather than something exemplary.
There is also Google Translate that goes as cheap as $0.00 per word ($0 per page).
Funcom dropped the translation as it dropped the European servers, and they will not have the resources to afford it in the future.

---

I have to respectfully disagree with those rates. Maybe in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Vladivostok, Novosibirsk, or other major city centers - but absolutely not out of mainstream areas where there are people who can translate just fine.

I've paid $0.07 per word translation for Kazakh and Russian - from a lawyer. You just have to know who to talk to. My wife (well, ex-wife) has her Specialist's degree from Slavic University and speaks flawless Russian and excellent English (plus the five years she was married to me - a writer and speaker) - and she translates for $0.04 for low difficulty things, and not more than $0.08 to $0.10 per word otherwise.

Anyone charging more than that is overcharging - plain and simple. I completely agree with Khal (post above mine) as well. No reason to overpay for things people will do for free - or in exchange for game time.

Sometimes I get paid to CREATE targeted copywriting that sells things - or moves people - or triggers a response (and not that crap you read on spam site). Actual research and market statistic based copywriting. That pays from $0.20 per word and up (averaged out) - but sometimes significantly more.

So sure, if you are translating copywriting or a literary work - and it needs to be translated properly, then sure - I pay more for that - but it's exceedingly rare that I am hired to create marketing for anything other than America - because that's where I grew up, and it's the market I know. I can't engage Russians or anyone else on the same level I can engage Americans.

Translating a game - that's not such a task - and paying more than $0.04 per word for that sort of thing is outright robbery - especially since I can rent great apartments in places like Armenia, Georgia, or Tajikistan where native Russian speakers live who are in a part of the world where those apartments cost $300 a month. At $0.04 per word, and 500 words an hour, that's $20 an hour - or about $40,000 a year. Poverty level income in America is $20,000 a year. The average income in any of the countries I just listed is at or less than a quarter of that.

GDP Armenia - $$3,505: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Armenia
GDP Georgia - $6,100: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...rgia_(country)
GDP Tajikistan - $2,200: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Tajikistan

So people in those countries will happily do four times the work of an American translator working at poverty level income. In fact, even in Russia people are happily willing to work for the American poverty level rate, as the Russian GDP isn't more than $24,300 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia), and that's grossly skewed by the oil industry and people with absurdly high salaries.

I mention this because every time I get in a taxi and some guy asks me how much a taxi costs in America - and then expects me to pay that - the fact is I'm not in America. The roads aren't as good, the police aren't as good, and the governments and business climates are generally not as good either (I won't even discuss the medical).

My secretary in Tbilisi works 40 hours a week for $500 a month - and she's good enough to translate AOC - so there's more than 160 hours of translation at about $0.0065 per hour if she does 500 words - but hey, she could just do a little more than 100 words an hour, and it would still only be $0.03 per word. And according to the local markets, she's overpaid by about $100 - but then I try to pay people more because I don't believe in abusing them.

That said, if I am working for not less than $30 an hour - because of the geographical location I'm in and the fact that I'm 40+, that's a fraction of what I'd be earning in America. So AOC just needs to localize better and capitalize on the different strengths of regional markets that can support their needs in a sustainable manner while continuing to generate revenue. That's just business (and yeah, I'm a capitalist). :D

Here's a writing sample that's not been completely edited: https://hjbuell.com/this-is-alcoholism/

Here's a translation of a poem that's inaccurate, but still gets the message across: https://hjbuell.com/once-we-loved/

Here's another Russian translation - again, not the best - but it was cheap and 'good enough' at about $0.02 per word: http://www.henrybuell.com/a-different-afghanistan/

None of that stuff is great, and it's far from my best work. It won't win literary awards, and I can't be bothered to go back in and edit the stuff. It is however representative of what low cost translation can produce, and I don't think game translation needs any more than that - especially not at this late stage of the game.

So yeah - text translations can and should be had for less. Why they aren't is an indication of top level management decisions that none of us are in a position to comment on other than from an observational standpoint.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khaletohep

And if American: Knowing foreign languages seem to some kind of magical ability for some 'Murricans, only to be done by professionals with some super special secret knowledge of... omg, he knows how to speak French! If falling for that fallacy: No, it's not. Translating language on a MMO level of complexity is not a feat of wonder.

---

I love this :)

A more true statement I've never seen :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RunningWolf

blabla

---

Yeah, let's exploit the poverty of people around the world!

This post contains sarcasm. Feel free to dismiss it if you don't know what it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nephturi

Yeah, let's exploit the poverty of people around the world!

This post contains sarcasm. Feel free to dismiss it if you don't know what it is.

---

:D

By the way - love your signature!! :D :D

While I do love sarcasm, I don't see paying someone more than they would earn elsewhere as 'exploiting' their poverty - because the standard of poverty is relative to where you live.

Poverty in America is basically the GDP per capita of Russia (American GDP per capita: ). So if someone lives in a country where their cost of living is significantly less than that of America, why should they be paid the same rates?

If a person can earn $300 a month and can buy a house or apartment for $10,000 to $20,000, and they are paid $500 a month - that's not exploitation. It's business - and everyone is benefitting.

In my country that same house would cost me ten times more, at $100,000 - but I'd be earning ten times more at $5,000 a month. I'm not home though - I'm in those countries earning less than I could back home, creating jobs, and advocating increased business and revenue for the people in my host nations.

It's the expectation of people in those countries that they should receive the same pay as someone in a country with ten to twenty times the cost of living that's bad. And honestly that's what creates the problem - because companies like Funcom say, "Oh, we can't justify this cost any longer." That results in no income for anyone, and no German Guardians being able to charge their batteries properly (imagine all those lonely female Guardians - that's the real tragedy of this discussion).

Anyway, there are plenty of times I have taken on content writing and work to fill the gaps at much less than I'd like to earn - because that's what the market will bear. Likewise when I teach English, I don't say, "Well, I'm American, and an business level English teacher in America should earn at least $40,000 a year with benefits."

Instead I say, "Sure, we're all living here in your country, and I get that you can't pay me more than $10 an hour - which is a really good rate in this part of the world, so let's go enjoy a great lunch or dinner for the $3 it costs here ($30 in America) and have an English lesson while we discuss the menu." If you want discount English lessons, come out with me in the evening, buy me a few of those $1 or $2 beers you have here, or let's share a bottle of that $10 Vodka, and let's drink and chat in English.

Just like taking a bus for 24 hours from Tashkent to Almaty for $30-$40 (which I've done), or ride sharing a taxi for $1 instead of $4 (also done that), or sharing a car from Bishkek to Almaty for $20 (also done that) is just economics. I'm not complaining that not being able to afford the $200 plane ride makes me exploited - it's just how things are.

:D

Ah, but you live in those countries, so it's quite normal to use the local rates. Funcom is based in Oslo, so they should (and probably do) pay according to the Norwegian rates.

But the real problem here sin't that Funcom doesn't want to pay anymore, it's that the company that ised to do the job stopped working with them. We don't know why, and I won't blame Funcom about that because I don't know.

As for my sig, it comes from the TestLive discussions for the Guardian revamp of 2010. I'd love for it to become true :p

Edit: Found it: it's here.

The wording is "company stopped working with us". The reason is not given. I dare say: We didn't pay them (enough), so they "stopped working with us". Companies usually don't stop working with somebody with no reason.

@ Running Wolf
That was quite insightful. Nice post; I learned something today.

Just use Google translate........someone at FUNCOM should be able to handle that...